Myth 1: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact......US ranks 23rd in Infant mortality, 21st in life expectancy, 67th in immunizations for its citizens (right behind Botswana), and also ranks dead last of all industrialized nations in terms of largest amount of its people without health coverage (50 million people or nearly 20% of the population).
Myth 2: The Problems With The US Health Care System Are Being Solved and Are Best Solved By Private Corporate Managed Care Medicine because they are the most efficient .
Fact......Private for profit corporation are the lease efficient deliverer of health care. They spend between 20 and 30% of premiums on administration and profits. The public sector is the most efficient and similar systems in other industrialized nations only spend 3 to 6% on administration. Also, the private providers (HMO’s) make extra profit BY DENYING PEOPLE THRU ANY LOOPJHOLE POSSIBLE, such as “pre-existing” conditions. Universal health care covers you thru your life from birth, so there is no such thing as a “pre-existing” condition.
Myth 3: Universal Health Coverage Would Deprive Citizens of Needed Services .
Fact......Studies reveal that citizens in universal health care systems have more doctor visits and more hospital days than in the US
and difficulties accessing care are shown to be greater in the US than Canada. I personally saw this recently when my friend went to an emergency room for a head injury and after CT scans were inconclusive THEY RELEASED HER AT 10 PM AFTER A FEW HOURS INSTEAD OF KEEPING HERE OVERNIGHT FOR OBSERVATION, even though she was 60 yrs old and had nausea and dizziness associated with a light to moderate concussion. This is due to agreements set up with hospitals and “profit at all patients costs” HMO’s.
Myth 4: Universal Health Coverage Would Result In Government Control Resulting In Loss Of Freedom Of Choice.
Fact.......Lack of freedom of choice runs rampant in the current US “for-profit” coverage system, especially when your HMO or PPO gives you a members list of “thier providers” to choose from. Also, many employers only offer 1 or 2 plans (usually crappy ones) to choose from. In a Universal Health coverage plan, you could go to any doctor anywhere, since they would ALL belong to the same “HMO”, namely Uncle Sams Insurance company, where the coverage rules are set up for the patients benefit, not for the corporate boards profits that limit which diseases get which treatment, or pre-existing condition crap.
Myth 5: Universal Health Coverage is “Socialized Medicine” and is a communist model.
Fact......This is the biggest myth perpetrated by the medical insurance and pharmaceutical industries. Socialized medicine means that BOTH the insurors AND the providers (doctors) work for the government. In a Universal Healthcare System the doctors remain PRIVATE just like they are now. It’s only the private for profit INSURANCE PROVIDERS that would go away, so is anyone going to miss the crappy coverage the current HMO or PPO models provide?? The PRIVATE docters would just bill Uncle Sams Insurance Company instead of Blue Cross or Kaiser Permanente or Southeast CheapCare. These same HMO’s pay billions of $$ to advertizers, radio talk show hosts etc to spew nonsense that Universal health care is “socialized medicine and is “evil commie medicine” in order to scare people like you and me.
Myth 6: Universal Health Coverage Would Be Too Expensive and Raise Taxes Too Much:
Fact......The United States spends at least 40% more PER CAPITA on health care than any other industrialized country with universal health, due mainly to private insurors and drug companies jacking up profit margins like a drug cartel with no gov’t oversight. Also, most employers who offer health coverage force employees to pay part of it, usually 30-40 bucks/bi-weekly for 1 person, or 100-150 bucks bi-weekly for entire family coverage. That comes out to you and me paying $800-$1000 a year for single person coverage or $2000-$3000/year for family coverage...in addition for your company paying the rest of it (an additional $3000-$9000). Take that money, reduce it slightly and that would be the taxes needed to make Universal Health Coverage work. In other words, whatever taxes are raised on you would be MORE THAN OFFSET by no more need for you or your employer to make any contributions or copays to the HMO’s. Also, the money we spend per year in Iraq is more than a Universal Coverage system would cost.
Only allowed to post after 10 “censored” replies???
Wow, freedom of speech control at it’s best. Now that’s right out of the communist mode...maybe from the ex Soviet model or even Red China?
Maybe instead of worrying about my post, you all should worry about the facts in them, and if you have a useful, knowledgeable rebuttal, then lets have it. I can admit if any facts were wrong if you prove them wrong, but you had better do your homework because I do, and I’m pretty thorough.
Basically, this whole thing is about how the private insurance and drug companies are putting the screws to you and me, and they’ve got the politicians (esp Republicans but some Dems also) in thier cash pockets thru those lobby lawyer SOB’s. They are selling us out (including you) for the record multi billions in profits for HMO CEO’s, and they are succesful in scaring the ingnorant and stupid by using the “socialized” or “commie” card. Hey, I’m still a registered Republican, but go along independant lines these days, agreeing some with the far right like Pat Buchanan on border control and NAFTA and outsourcing to Asia crap selling out US workers, but I also agree with some on the left for Universal Health Coverage. Its not a right vs left thing, its a battle of the filthy rich corrupt 5-10% vs honest hard working folks like 90-95 % of us.
Only allowed to post after 10 “censored” replies???
Wow, freedom of speech control at it’s best. Now that’s right out of the communist mode...maybe from the ex Soviet model or even Red China?
The DU has rules. DailyKOS has them. Michael Moore shut his forum down years ago, promising to bring it back up “soon”.
1. New users will be required to make 10 posts before starting their own threads.
The reason for this is there has been a long line of users who sign in, obviously don’t look around, post some message that is redundant and most likely has been covered at length in many other threads. Often it’s a screed against the site that they think is clever, except that we’ve seen so many almost identical ones before. Sometimes it’s a “drive-by” post, where the author never returns and only succeeds to send other users into a tizzy. Sometimes they are merely spam/troll posts.
By requiring 10 posts, it should give the user a chance to get a feel for the site first, maybe discover there already exists a thread for their topic. 10 troll/contentless posts will not count. Users violating this will have their thread locked (if innocent mistake) or deleted (in worse cases, ie spam & troll postings).
Looks like you can’t be bothered with piffle like etiquette, rules, regulations or the wishes of Moorewatch regulars. Thats behaviour I’d expect from a fan emulating Bushitler.
Also, the private providers (HMO’s) make extra profit BY DENYING PEOPLE THRU ANY LOOPJHOLE POSSIBLE, such as “pre-existing” conditions. Universal health care covers you thru your life from birth, so there is no such thing as a “pre-existing” condition.
There’s a J in your LOOPJHOLE. Those sneaky J’s always find one.
If you want to be taken seriously you need to provide references and links for your statistics. “Studies show that...” won’t really cut it around here.
Myth 1: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact......US ranks 23rd in Infant mortality, 21st in life expectancy, 67th in immunizations for its citizens (right behind Botswana), and also ranks dead last of all industrialized nations in terms of largest amount of its people without health coverage (50 million people or nearly 20% of the population)....
What are your sources? How was the infant mortality rate for this country calculated, compared to other countries?
Myth 1: The United States has the best health care system in the world.
Fact......US ranks 23rd in Infant mortality, 21st in life expectancy, 67th in immunizations for its citizens (right behind Botswana), and also ranks dead last of all industrialized nations in terms of largest amount of its people without health coverage (50 million people or nearly 20% of the population)....
What are your sources? How was the infant mortality rate for this country calculated, compared to other countries?
Comparing infant mortality rates
The infant mortality rate correlates very strongly with and is among the best predictors of state failure.[1] IMR is also a useful indicator of a country’s level of health or development, and is a component of the physical quality of life index. But the method of calculating IMR often varies widely between countries based on the way they define a live birth. The World Health Organization (WHO) defines a live birth as any born human being who demonstrates independent signs of life, including breathing, voluntary muscle movement, or heartbeat. Many countries, however, including certain European states and Japan, only count as live births cases where an infant breathes at birth, which makes their reported IMR numbers somewhat lower and raises their rates of perinatal mortality.
The exclusion of any high-risk infants from the denominator or numerator in reported IMRs can be problematic for comparisons. The United States counts many infant births as live which other countries do not and therefore usually appears to have a much higher rate of infant mortality than similar countries. The US counts an infant exhibiting any sign of life as alive, no matter the month of gestation or the size, but other countries differ in these practices. For example, in Germany and Austria, fetal weight must reach one pound to be counted as a live birth, while in some other countries, including Switzerland, the baby must be at least 12 inches long. Both Belgium and France report babies as born lifeless if they are less than 26 weeks’ gestation.[2]
Another well-documented example also illustrates this problem. Historically, until the 1990s Russia and the Soviet Union did not count as a live birth or as an infant death extremely premature infants (less than 1,000 g, less than 28 weeks gestational age, or less than 35 cm in length) that were born alive (breathed, had a heartbeat, or exhibited voluntary muscle movement) but failed to survive for at least 7 days.[3] Although such extremely premature infants typically accounted for only about 0.005 of all live-born children, their exclusion from both the numerator and the denominator in the reported IMR led to an estimated 22%-25% lower reported IMR.[4] In some cases, too, perhaps because hospitals or regional health departments were held accountable for lowering the IMR in their catchment area, infant deaths that occurred in the 12th month were “transferred” statistically to the 13th month (i.e., the second year of life), and thus no longer classified as an infant death.[5]
Another challenge to comparability is the practice of counting frail or premature infants who die before the normal due date as miscarriages (spontaneous abortions) or those who die during or immediately after childbirth as stillborn. Therefore, the quality of a country’s documentation of perinatal mortality can matter greatly to the accuracy of its infant mortality statistics. This point is reinforced by the demographer Ansley Coale, who finds dubiously high ratios of reported stillbirths to infant deaths in Hong Kong and Japan in the first 24 hours after birth, a pattern that is consistent with the high recorded sex ratios at birth in those countries and suggests not only that many female infants who die in the first 24 hours are misreported as stillbirths rather than infant deaths but also that those countries do not follow WHO recommendations for the reporting of live births and infant deaths. [6]
Another seemingly paradoxical finding is that when countries with poor medical services introduce new medical centers and services, instead of declining the reported IMRs often increase for a time. The main cause of this is that improvement in access to medical care is often accompanied by improvement in the registration of unplanned births and deaths. Deaths that might have occurred in a remote or rural area and not been reported to the government might now be reported by the new medical personnel or facilities. Thus, even if the new health services reduce the actual IMR, the reported IMR may increase.
Although Save The Children discuss the situation in the US in this document. They suggest that rates are worse amongst minority populations, even when access to pre-natal care is the same. There is also a link to low education. See page 37 of that document.
He is already at 12 and he hasn’t been censored. I don’t know what the h*ll he is talking about.
He assumes that all the myths he stated are believed by us and already proven. I don’t think we can change his mind.
He is already at 12 and he hasn’t been censored. I don’t know what the h*ll he is talking about.
He assumes that all the myths he stated are believed by us and already proven. I don’t think we can change his mind.
Were I to guess, I would think that his “censored” was meant to be a placeholder for “fucking” or something like that. As though we aren’t all adult enough to handle words like shit, damn, bastard and assraping-sister-fucker. Sheep-fucker for the Kiwis, or is that assumed in New Zealand?
Only allowed to post after 10 “censored” replies???
Wow, freedom of speech control at it’s best. Now that’s right out of the communist mode...maybe from the ex Soviet model or even Red China?
Whatever jerk.
Your myths are myths themselves.
I’m not going to be buried with paperwork and take the time to respond to each. Its easier to throw out a bogus claim than to refute it.
Pick one, or two, that you think are the most important.... or even your strongest point/s and we’ll address it.
CM already made some good points about infant mortality… I’d just add, I’m not sure I’d buy any figure from a closed society where doctors can be pressured to not count infant deaths as such (when they have accounting fudge factors available, like under a certain length or weight).... speaking of soviet models and red china… or cuba…
Only allowed to post after 10 “censored” replies???
Wow, freedom of speech control at it’s best. Now that’s right out of the communist mode...maybe from the ex Soviet model or even Red China?
If making ten little posts prior to starting a thread was such a damned burden to you, how did you expect to carry on a debate here?
Basically, this whole thing is about how the private insurance and drug companies are putting the screws to you and me, and they’ve got the politicians (esp Republicans but some Dems also) in thier cash pockets thru those lobby lawyer SOB’s. They are selling us out (including you) for the record multi billions in profits for HMO CEO’s, and they are succesful in scaring the ingnorant and stupid by using the “socialized” or “commie” card.
Yeah, I’m sure glad you didn’t use the “commie” card. OH WAIT...! *glances up to the prior quote*
Hey, I’m still a registered Republican, but go along independant lines these days, agreeing some with the far right like Pat Buchanan on border control and NAFTA and outsourcing to Asia crap selling out US workers, but I also agree with some on the left for Universal Health Coverage. Its not a right vs left thing, its a battle of the filthy rich corrupt 5-10% vs honest hard working folks like 90-95 % of us.
Yes, because putting all power over healthcare in the hands of politicians is the way to remove corruption. ;-)
