Who look Middle Eastern. I don’t know about you, but I’m much more comfortable having the guy with the turban strip-searched than a 75-yr-old white grandma.
I mean get realistic. Is there some sort of Granny Jihad or something out there? Old women who blow themselves up?
Can you really tell who is Middle Eastern ? How Middle Eastern ? This guy was Brazilian but people are saying he looked ‘vaguely’ Middle Eastern. And how what about the fact that there are many Muslims who are not Middle Eastern at all (lots of black people in London for example) ?
Can you really tell who is Middle Eastern ? How Middle Eastern ? This guy was Brazilian but people are saying he looked ‘vaguely’ Middle Eastern. And how what about the fact that there are many Muslims who are not Middle Eastern at all (lots of black people in London for example) ?
Just curious, CM… would you be as upset about this if they were looking for a gang of red-haired men with freckles?
Can you really tell who is Middle Eastern ? How Middle Eastern ? This guy was Brazilian but people are saying he looked ‘vaguely’ Middle Eastern. And how what about the fact that there are many Muslims who are not Middle Eastern at all (lots of black people in London for example) ?
Just curious, CM… would you be as upset about this if they were looking for a gang of red-haired men with freckles?
You mean the IRA? :P
SoulEata - 26 July 2005 11:30 AM
Who look Middle Eastern. I don’t know about you, but I’m much more comfortable having the guy with the turban strip-searched than a 75-yr-old white grandma.
See if you can get what this resembles
The Soul Eata Laws, as they are known, do not define a “Muslim” as someone with particular religious beliefs. Instead, anyone who has three or four Middle Eastern grandparents is defined as a Potential Terrorist, regardless of whether that individual identifies himself or herself as someone from the Middle Eastor belonged to the Isalmic religious community. Many Westerners who have not practiced Islam for years find themselves caught in the grip of a Freedom Pogrom. Even people with Middle Eatsern grandparents who have converted to Christianity and/or support capitalism and democracy are defined as Suspects.
Can you really tell who is Middle Eastern ? How Middle Eastern ? This guy was Brazilian but people are saying he looked ‘vaguely’ Middle Eastern. And how what about the fact that there are many Muslims who are not Middle Eastern at all (lots of black people in London for example) ?
Just curious, CM… would you be as upset about this if they were looking for a gang of red-haired men with freckles?
Not sure of a scenario where that would make sense !
Of course in Soul’s world the actual race being racially profiled wouldn’t have a problem with it at all.
You wouldn’t be buying yourself a whole lot more problems at all.
In Soul’s world.
Can you really tell who is Middle Eastern ? How Middle Eastern ? This guy was Brazilian but people are saying he looked ‘vaguely’ Middle Eastern. And how what about the fact that there are many Muslims who are not Middle Eastern at all (lots of black people in London for example) ?
Just curious, CM… would you be as upset about this if they were looking for a gang of red-haired men with freckles?
Not sure of a scenario where that would make sense !
It’s a hypothesis. Assume it’s a contingent of mad Scotsmen or something. Red-Headed League Gone Wild. The point is, would you be as upset about it?
Can you really tell who is Middle Eastern ? How Middle Eastern ? This guy was Brazilian but people are saying he looked ‘vaguely’ Middle Eastern. And how what about the fact that there are many Muslims who are not Middle Eastern at all (lots of black people in London for example) ?
Just curious, CM… would you be as upset about this if they were looking for a gang of red-haired men with freckles?
Not sure of a scenario where that would make sense !
It’s a hypothesis. Assume it’s a contingent of mad Scotsmen or something. Red-Headed League Gone Wild. The point is, would you be as upset about it?
I’d have to know exactly what it was that was being sought. What would the problem be ? I don’t think I can give an answer unless I have specifics. But if you want to try and answer the questions I set out above, that might advance the topic.
I’d have to know exactly what it was that was being sought. What would the problem be ? I don’t think I can give an answer unless I have specifics. But if you want to try and answer the questions I set out above, that might advance the topic.
Sigh. I was trying to turn the scenario around and take a look at it from another angle, but if you’re going to be obtuse I’ll just state the question bluntly: Are you just upset because they’re looking for dark/Middle Eastern people? If, in fact, IN THE VERY SAME SCENARIO, they were looking for red-headed men with freckles, would you be asking things like:
Can you really tell who is red-haired?
How red does the hair have to be?
The person who was shot was really a strawberry blonde if you looked at him in the right light, but they said he was “vaguely red-haired.”
Have you considered the fact that a lot of people dye their hair red?
Oh, and in answer to your questions:
Yes, Middle Eastern people are distinguishable from other ethnic groups.
“How Middle Eastern?” I don’t know how to quantify percentages of Middle Eastern.
A Brazilian might look “vaguely Middle Eastern” by virtue of having similar coloring, especially at a distance, while running.
The fact that there are many Muslims who are not Middle Eastern is a good point, but I’m not sure it’s germane.
I could write a whole lot of stuff about police work right here, since my worser half is a cop, but I think at this point that it’s a pointless exercise, and anyway I’m getting pretty grumpy about it, so I’ll leave it alone until later.
Sorry liberty, I really didn’t mean to come across as ‘obtuse’, or make you grumpy.
Yep, I’d be asking the difficult questions and trying to make sure it’s carried out in a fair way, or at least in a way that isn’t going to stir up more trouble.
There is a world of difference in how you go about it.
They are looking for extremist Muslims. That isn’t a physical characteristic. Sure, most people who fit that will more than likely have a Middle Eastern appearance. But if you are talking about situations like the one we’ve had (where a guy is followed for a long time before he is suddenly executed), how accurate is your profiling going to be ?
Sorry liberty, I really didn’t mean to come across as ‘obtuse’, or make you grumpy.
Yep, I’d be asking the difficult questions and trying to make sure it’s carried out in a fair way, or at least in a way that isn’t going to stir up more trouble.
There is a world of difference in how you go about it.
They are looking for extremist Muslims. That isn’t a physical characteristic. Sure, most people who fit that will more than likely have a Middle Eastern appearance. But if you are talking about situations like the one we’ve had (where a guy is followed for a long time before he is suddenly executed), how accurate is your profiling going to be ?
I’m happy to hear you’d be asking the same questions if it was a different ethnic group. It has assuaged my grumpiness, so well done. ;-) Actually it’s the monsoons playing havoc with my work that are really making me grumpy, but I digress.
I see what you’re saying, but profiling is only one tool, and while it’s not the be-all end-all it is a starting point. For example, if you came to me and wanted me to find your wounded equine that you had lost at the horse ranch, it would be fairly important to know if said equine was a zebra. If there turned out to be two dozen zebras among two hundred horses, I’d start looking for the wounded ones - but I wouldn’t be wasting my time checking the palominos, see?
I think it’s really tragic that the guy was shot, and I feel both for the family and for the shooters. It’s a mess all round.
And now I’m taking my grouchy butt to bed, so yall have a good day!
Monsoons and typhoons.:shut: I here ya! I’m in Japan. Where you be, liberty?
I’m in Texas (and not in bed, cos I decided to stay up and have a glass of mead like the big old lush I am), but half our operation is in India, and apparently Mumbai is practically being washed away.
Let me make sure I understand the issue about profiling....
You guys who are against including race in the equation are concerned that many people would be hassled for no reason, right?
If that’s true, then why aren’t you screaming about the current system? Since no bombs have been found in the screening process at airports, virtually 100% of people have been hassled for no reason, right?
If the question is survival of innocent people, the answer surely isn’t politically correct protection of some legitimately-suspected group’s sensibilities. What is the point of creating a “diversity” program in searching for things of which 99.9% will be found by searching people who resemble the 99.9% of those who have already commited terrorist acts? Why on Earth should I or anyone else care if some innocents are searched when, so far, every searchee has been innocent? Oh, well yeah, I forgot about all those hyper-dangerous fingernail clippers they’ve seized.
I’m speaking from my perspective as an American mostly. You guys overseas are more than welcome to to make and implement your own policies based on your own views as far as I’m concerned, and I am not criticizing the choices you’ve made. Likewise, I would like to see our allies make allowances for the fact that we may make and implement different policies, and that it doesn’t make us any more of a racist nation than yours, any less concerned about civil rights, any more cold-hearted towards the plight of poor people in the Middle East, yada yada yada. We’re searching randomly right now in NY subways. Maybe other places as well. It has produced nothing except to spread the hassles among those who least deserve to be suspected. I mean, maybe they’re doing 1 out of everry 10 people get searched. Grandma is #1 and gets searched, and Muhammed Atta is #7 and doesn’t. The searchers follow the protocol, and BOOM! We just lost another train or plane! I think we have a right and a reason to demand of our government that it not play politically correct games with our lives, and I think we should have that right without the condescending criticizms of the ideas we put forth to achieve it.
