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“Sicko” previewed
Posted: 19 May 2007 06:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 31 ]
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Fox News likes Moore’s new film…

Sicko’ Shows Michael Moore’s Maturity as a Filmmaker

Filmmaker Michael Moore’s brilliant and uplifting new documentary, “Sicko,” deals with the failings of the U.S. healthcare system, both real and perceived. But this time around, the controversial documentarian seems to be letting the subject matter do the talking, and in the process shows a new maturity.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,273875,00.html

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Posted: 19 May 2007 09:36 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 32 ]
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http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1622178-2,00.html

TIME: So if there’s no argument that the system is broken, why use your energies to start one?

Michael Moore: Because what’s even more broken is the fact that our Congress and White House are bought and paid for by these two industries, which rival the oil industry in terms of money and influence. They have a vested interest in maintaining their control. But they’re not dumb. They know which way the wind is blowing and that this is the No. 1 domestic issue with Americans. Their job now is to try to control it so that universal health care is run through them, so that they can still skim the money, make the obscene profits and keep their investors happy.

So the Clintons did their best, but....

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1622178-2,00.html

TIME: You also speak rhapsodically about the French and Cuban systems and travel to Cuba, where you interview Che Guevara’s daughter. France, Cuba, Che. Are you going out of your way to annoy the right?

Michael Moore: I give people more credit than the media and the political machine running this country do. The story line is: France, bad; France, cowards. What crime did France commit? We wouldn’t have had this country without their support in the Revolution. They gave us that statue that sits out in New York Harbor. They responded immediately after 9/11. And they remain eternally grateful for what we did during World War II.

As for Cuba, yes, when I’ve got a film crew there, they’re going to show us their best. But there’s a reason the World Health Organization ranks their health-care system [among] the best in the Third World and that people from Latin America come there for their health care.

Which is why we should do whatever Che’s daughter says, beings how she The Expert on healthcare.....

There’s also a reason Cubans live on average a month longer than we do.

Source?

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Posted: 20 May 2007 03:20 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 33 ]
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CUBA: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75/79
http://www.who.int/countries/cub/en/

USA: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75/80
http://www.who.int/countries/usa/en/

WHO says it’s about even.

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My soul smells like a dead pigeon after three weeks,
I shut my window and go to sleep.
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Posted: 20 May 2007 11:38 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 34 ]
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I’d say our health care is still better because our lives are spent pigging out on fastfood, living in a state of near-intertia at work/rest/play, yet we still manage to match the lifespan of a godless worker’s paradise watching its calories by eating only the occasional “steak” made from fried cardboard.

Our pharma industry conjures up enough handy pills to offset most of the ailments our lifestyle induces. This is what costs money. Castro clones them - presumably out of cardboard - and sells them cheap. All hail the Miracle Worker.

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COMMUNISM HAS ONLY KILLED 100 MILLION PEOPLE… let’s give it another chance.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 05:04 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 35 ]
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CUBA:
Total expenditure on health per capita (Intl $, 2004): 229
Total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2004): 6.3

USA:
Total expenditure on health per capita (Intl $, 2004): 6,096
Total expenditure on health as % of GDP (2004): 15.4

By spending 26 times as much per person, presumably the additional benefits are in other areas?

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My soul smells like a dead pigeon after three weeks,
I shut my window and go to sleep.
In my dream, I eat corn with my eyes.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 05:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 36 ]
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Research and develoment.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 37 ]
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Sethery - 20 May 2007 05:17 PM

Research and develoment.

Yeah I guess it does rely entirely on what they include

http://www.who.int/whosis/database/country/compare.cfm?country=USA&indicator;=PcTotEOHinIntD&language;=english

Definition: Total health expenditure per capita is the per capita amount of the sum of Public Health Expenditure (PHE) and Private Expenditure on Health (PvtHE).

It seems they use ‘National Health Accounts”
http://www.who.int/nha/what/en/index.html

Clicking on the ‘classification’ hypertext takes you to this PDF
http://www.who.int/nha/glossary/en/Financing%20flow.pdf

Which, indeed, includes “Research and Development in Health”.

Also includes Insurance, which I suspect may also make up a lot of that.

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I shut my window and go to sleep.
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Posted: 20 May 2007 05:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 38 ]
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CM - 20 May 2007 05:53 PM

Also includes Insurance, which I suspect may also make up a lot of that.

Quite possibly.  I’ve had a theory for a while that insurance itself is what has driven up medical costs.  Instead of having to work with a patient’s finances, doctors now have a huge pool of money to charge their services to.  I have no evidence of this, but I do think insurance has warped the natural market.

But in any case, when Americans companies have to stop funding R&D;from their profits, I don’t see any good coming from that.  They’ll have less incentive to efficiently spend public funds on research that helps large numbers of people.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 39 ]
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Sethery - 20 May 2007 05:59 PM

CM - 20 May 2007 05:53 PM
Also includes Insurance, which I suspect may also make up a lot of that.

Quite possibly.  I’ve had a theory for a while that insurance itself is what has driven up medical costs.  Instead of having to work with a patient’s finances, doctors now have a huge pool of money to charge their services to.  I have no evidence of this, but I do think insurance has warped the natural market.

But in any case, when Americans companies have to stop funding R&D;from their profits, I don’t see any good coming from that.  They’ll have less incentive to efficiently spend public funds on research that helps large numbers of people.

I would agree about insurance driving up costs. I don’t see that it can have done anything else.

I guess we shouldn’t forget that research and development is also an important part of Cuba’s healthcare system:

The export of pharmaceutical products, vaccines and biotechnology helps to pay for the growing costs of funding medical research and a free health system with comprehensive coverage.

Today the medical sector ranks sixth in terms of exports and services, providing the country with vitally needed foreign exchange that was worth $250m a year in 2002.

Out of that figure biotechnology alone accounted for more than $150m.

Vaccines

In the 1980s millions of dollars were invested by the Cuban government in developing modern vaccines laboratories and a massive centre for biotechnology.

Since the end of Soviet aid in 1989, and the acute economic crisis of the 1990s, Cuba has seen the excellence of its medico-scientific institutions as a strategic resource for developing new medical products for export.

The country’s first breakthrough in medical research was its discovery and patenting of meningitis-B vaccine in late 1980s.

It has been successfully exported to cope with epidemics in South American countries including Brazil and Argentina.

The vaccine has now been licensed to GlaxoSmithKline who will now market it in Europe and it is hoped eventually in the USA.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/3284995.stm

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My soul smells like a dead pigeon after three weeks,
I shut my window and go to sleep.
In my dream, I eat corn with my eyes.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 06:15 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 40 ]
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I’m pretty sure medical R&D;expenditure in the U.S. is in the billions, if not tens of billions, of dollars per year.  That article only cited Cuba’s exports.

In any case I have to argue that to claim the health system is free, you have to accept that the money belongs to the government and not the people.  That is clearly the case in Cuba.  That doesn’t go over well here.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 06:37 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 41 ]
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Sethery - 20 May 2007 06:15 PM

I’m pretty sure medical R&D;expenditure in the U.S. is in the billions, if not tens of billions, of dollars per year.  That article only cited Cuba’s exports.

In any case I have to argue that to claim the health system is free, you have to accept that the money belongs to the government and not the people.  That is clearly the case in Cuba.  That doesn’t go over well here.

The article itself does only mention the exports, but presumably there is some expenditure required in order to have something to export. All I’m saying is that I’m sure Cuba doesn’t spend close to nothing per person on R&D;. It’s surely reasonably substantial.

Yes, socialised is a much more accurate term than ‘free’. Obviously the government provides nothing ‘free’, as it all must come from somewhere. At least you guys get some say in what the spending priorities are.

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My soul smells like a dead pigeon after three weeks,
I shut my window and go to sleep.
In my dream, I eat corn with my eyes.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 06:49 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 42 ]
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CM - 20 May 2007 06:37 PM

The article itself does only mention the exports, but presumably there is some expenditure required in order to have something to export. All I’m saying is that I’m sure Cuba doesn’t spend close to nothing per person on R&D;. It’s surely reasonably substantial.

Granted.  It would be interesting to see some quantification of the amount of R&D;each country produces versus how much they spend on it.  It’s difficult to quantify the former, though.  My suspicion is that privately-funded R&D;is going to be more efficient, because researchers are accountable to actual people for the money spent.

Yes, socialised is a much more accurate term than ‘free’. Obviously the government provides nothing ‘free’, as it all must come from somewhere. At least you guys get some say in what the spending priorities are.

The more private it is, the more say I have.

Or in Yodaese:  More private is it, more say have I.

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Posted: 20 May 2007 07:51 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 43 ]
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Sethery - 20 May 2007 06:49 PM

CM - 20 May 2007 06:37 PM
The article itself does only mention the exports, but presumably there is some expenditure required in order to have something to export. All I’m saying is that I’m sure Cuba doesn’t spend close to nothing per person on R&D;. It’s surely reasonably substantial.

Granted.  It would be interesting to see some quantification of the amount of R&D;each country produces versus how much they spend on it.  It’s difficult to quantify the former, though.  My suspicion is that privately-funded R&D;is going to be more efficient, because researchers are accountable to actual people for the money spent.

Yes, socialised is a much more accurate term than ‘free’. Obviously the government provides nothing ‘free’, as it all must come from somewhere. At least you guys get some say in what the spending priorities are.

The more private it is, the more say I have.

Or in Yodaese:  More private is it, more say have I.

I meant in a democracy, you get to vote for people who want to spend money on things you believe it should be spent on. Or vote for those who spend less of it. Whereas in Cuba, the people don’t get any say in the priorities, or whether less or more should be spent.

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I shut my window and go to sleep.
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Posted: 20 May 2007 11:09 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 44 ]
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Victoria - 20 May 2007 01:09 PM

CM - 20 May 2007 03:20 AM
CUBA: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75/79
http://www.who.int/countries/cub/en/

USA: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75/80
http://www.who.int/countries/usa/en/

WHO says it’s about even.

Right Biafra, let’s compare to a country of lazy people who spend their days eating greasy food.

Is that out of Wiki or just your opinion?

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Posted: 21 May 2007 08:26 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 45 ]
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Rapid R - 20 May 2007 11:09 PM

Victoria - 20 May 2007 01:09 PM
CM - 20 May 2007 03:20 AM
CUBA: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75/79
http://www.who.int/countries/cub/en/

USA: Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 75/80
http://www.who.int/countries/usa/en/

WHO says it’s about even.

Right Biafra, let’s compare to a country of lazy people who spend their days eating greasy food.

Is that out of Wiki or just your opinion?

It was The Michael himself who compared the two in the context of available health care. So I draw the conclusion that its their health care that allows Cubans to live a month longer than US Americans. Fine. I just don’t see why living a month in Cuba under any circumstances would be so keen.

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