You know what the most successful thing that Moore’s $12,000 gift to JimK has done? It’s not that it has given Moore free publicity for his film and more tabloid fodder to stroke his ego that he’s a great humanitarian. It’s not that it gives all the drooling “journalists” who grovel at Moore’s feet a chance to write little blurbs in their news columns criticizing JimK (a few of which not even bothering to spell his last name right). It’s not even that it puts Jim on the defensive to try to defend the integrity of his site.
No, the absolute, undeniable victory for Moore and his cause is that once the movie airs, these boards are going to become infested, INFESTED with hundreds of Moore-ons who just have to gloat over how Moore has PWND! Jim and the rest of us. Before, we only got a few here and there. This is going to be a flood.
What bothers me most, they all assume we would do the same thing to Moore.
Like if his wife got a fatal disease, we would all send emails to Mikey gloating about it.
Sad people. There is public, there is private, Moore crossed the line.
If moore had played it perfectly, he would have released the news of his “altruism” before JimK announced it to the world. Of course, that doesn’t matter to his sheep, they’ll be baaaing his praises regardless. I’m still sickened that moore is so low of a lifeform that he’d exploit the illness of JimK’s wife in one of his capitalist ventures and then spin it into “I was just doing a nice thing because I care” and later “I was really debating on whether or not to use it in the film.” If mikkel had seriously debated the issue of including it in his movie and had just a shred of humanity, he would have come to the conclusion to keep it out of his film rather than using it as the climax.
If you have to broadcast your benevolence for the world to see, it’s for personal gain, not those you are “helping”. It’s like the Bible parable of the wealthy making a grandiose production of how much they were giving the church whilst a poor woman meekly walked up and dropped relatively small change into the collection. Her’s was the greater gift because it was all that she had whereas the boastful had given merely fractions of their wealth to prop themselves up as being something greater than they actually were. Moore’s a catholic, right?
Let us talk about Moore’s genius.
This is what happened when they showed Farenheit 9/11 in Iran, at Moore’s insistence:
Banafsheh Zand-Bonazzi of the conservative FrontPage magazine communicated by phone, fax, and email with people in Iran who had seen the film, and found that it generated an unexpectedly pro-American response. The viewers were struck by the way with which Moore was free to attack his own government, in contrast to the government repression and censorship they saw in Iran. One Iranian said of Michael Moore, “He ought to thank his lucky stars he lives in a country where he’s allowed and even encouraged to be this obnoxious.” Another told Zand-Bonazzi, “They are showing this film to erase from our minds the idea of America being the great liberator; maybe Americans themselves don’t appreciate what they have but we sure do!”
Genius, pure genius!
I am liking Iran more and more.
Let us talk about Moore’s genius.
This is what happened when they showed Farenheit 9/11 in Iran, at Moore’s insistence:
Banafsheh Zand-Bonazzi of the conservative FrontPage magazine communicated by phone, fax, and email with people in Iran who had seen the film, and found that it generated an unexpectedly pro-American response. The viewers were struck by the way with which Moore was free to attack his own government, in contrast to the government repression and censorship they saw in Iran. One Iranian said of Michael Moore, “He ought to thank his lucky stars he lives in a country where he’s allowed and even encouraged to be this obnoxious.” Another told Zand-Bonazzi, “They are showing this film to erase from our minds the idea of America being the great liberator; maybe Americans themselves don’t appreciate what they have but we sure do!”
Genius, pure genius!
I am liking Iran more and more.
Yeah, its pretty common that people oppressed and told the USA sucks tend to be the most supportive of the US…
Most everything I hear from Iran says people like the US.... just not the leadership class.
Sooo, what exactly is your point about Cuban healthcare?
That it’s better than the US? BS
That its more equitable than the US? BS (everyday locals probably can’t visit the doctors that helped)
I guess the detail of all this will all show up in the inevitable rebuttal online (and elsewhere). Reasoned arguments supporting by clear non-cherry picked data showing the opposite of what Moore shows in the film. Will be interesting to see.
Sooo, what exactly is your point about Cuban healthcare?
That it’s better than the US? BS
That its more equitable than the US? BS (everyday locals probably can’t visit the doctors that helped)
I guess the detail of all this will all show up in the inevitable rebuttal online (and elsewhere). Reasoned arguments supporting by clear non-cherry picked data showing the opposite of what Moore shows in the film. Will be interesting to see.
Well, just to set expectations… it usually takes a year to produce what your talking about.
Early responses don’t tend to be well thought out.
Its easier to tell tales than to unspin them.... Especially as some have evolved over years on the internet and or have been created by think tanks and activists groups… A lot of people, time, and some money have been involved in fine tuning and propagating them… for ‘us’ to debunk overnight....
If moore had played it perfectly, he would have released the news of his “altruism” before JimK announced it to the world.
I don’t know, I think this worked out pretty prefectly. All of the original news stories followed how JimK had received an anonymous donation, been tipped off it was Moore and so revealed it on his blog. It made him seem ungrateful (although of course that isn’t the case). If anyone searches for this on Google or whatever everyone is gonna pick up that story, very few people are gonna pick up that Moore mentioned it at the press conference or used it in the movie. Even now I see people commenting and saying that JimK is a bastard, Moore was just being generous, and it’s JimK’s own fault if Moore now puts it in the film :gulp:
It’s ridiculous, no doubt about that. But that’s how the masses work.
Then again, Jim could have avoided it by not taking the money. He could reduce it by paying the money back right now.
I no longer buy the “who would turn down $12,000” line. Fact is that many people would if it came from someone they have set thier lives against taking down. Many people would.
Like it or not, Moore makes his point here. The healthcare system is broken, as obviously seen by the insane price for JImK’s inusrance. Moore gets to help out, and in the end gets to close his film with the story.
I hope you are never in that situation, it changes your viewpoints. He hasn’t “set his life against Moore” it is what Moore does that JimK doesn’t like and he has one website, of several, where that is the main theme. If money is donated, freely given, it doesn’t need to be repaid. Moore pretended to freely give the money , when in fact, it was a calculated kick in the groin to a nemesis who is having real life problems. That is reprehensible behavior.
The Health care system is not broken, especially when compared to other countries. Any system designed to address issues of every person in the U.S. is going to have problems. Let’s use income tax as an example. I move up into another tax bracket and pay more taxes then a guy who made 100 dollars less than me. My point is no system will handle everyone fairly and there will always be examples. For every example Moore gives, I could find hundreds of example where it did work out. Canada does have socialized Medicine, yet we still hear horror stories. Why is that? Their system must be broken.
I don’t feel like working 7 months out of the year for the gov’t because somebody who doesn’t want to work wants free health care, but that is just me. Next we will say people shouldn’t have to worry about working for a living either, that is unfair.
....The healthcare system is broken, as obviously seen by the insane price for JImK’s inusrance......
That sounds more like The Insurance system is broken, which I would agree with.
But that’s the problem right there. The insurance aspect of it is half the problem. Canada’s system has its own problems, for sure. The main one being a shortage of adequate funding and adequate staffing to meet demand. But Canada’s problems are different than the US. Both are broken, the US system more so.
Back to Moore and JimK. Sure Moore is a dick for setting up the plan the way he did, but still JimK could return the money. JimK, who says himself he suspected it was Moore, could have given back the unused portions of the money right away, and repaid the other parts. I understand the money was given, but the donor was Moore and JimK spends a great deal of time trying to “bring Moore down” or however you wish to describe it. JimK runs an anti-Michael Moore site. So JimK should probably not take money from Michael Moore. It is really that simple. People and organizations turn down donations all the time, because of the source and because of the motives.
On the other hand, JimK chose to take the money. JimK owes Michael Moore big time. If JImK’s situation was as bad as everyone is saying, then Michael Moore’s actual motives can not possibly be more important than the gift that he gave JimK and his family. If the situation was so bad that JimK had to take this money from MM, then in JimK’s eyes, they should be EVEN. This site should be closed, or ownership transfered.
