As Mikkel Moore has stated over and over again (and I’m just talking about his recent CNN appearances), universal healthcare is FREE, no questions asked. It’s like when your house burns down and the firefighters don’t charge you, or when you check out a library book they don’t charge you, or when you go to see “Sicko” they let you waltz into the theater without paying because mikkel’s a big socialist and all and he’s just doing it for the kids. Yeah, that’s how healthcare works in Norway:
Standards of healthcare and medical treatment are very high in Norway.
Anyone who is living and working in Norway is required to contribute through the income tax system to the Norwegian Social Insurance Scheme, which covers health insurance. They will be issued with a health card and are entitled to register with a GP on the ‘Regular GP Scheme’, or to choose another doctor.
Public health services are decentralised, and managed by regional health authorities. Most doctors in Norway can speak English. You are allowed to change GPs up to twice in a year, but must register the change with the social security office. There are also some private clinics and hospitals in Norway.
Most medical treatment is free of charge apart from a small non-refundable fee per consultation. The amount varies depending on whether the consultation was with a GP or a specialist, and whether or not the doctor is covered by an agreement such as the Regular GP Scheme, but is normally in the region of 100kr.
Charges are often payable for specialist treatment, although in-patient care and treatment in a public hospital is usually free of charge.
And since it’s free, it’s darn near perfect, especially when compared to the system in Amerikka, which isn’t free and kills untold hundreds of people per day, Mikkey says so. So let’s see just how free The Norway Model is:
Financing
10. The public sector finances around 85% of health care (Table 1) mainly through general taxation,
compared with an OECD average of 74%. Health spending by local governments is mostly financed via
central government block grants. Moreover, the final responsibility regarding health policy, public health
and the provision of health care services rests with the Ministry of Health (see Ministry of Health and
Social affaires, n.d. undated, for the fields of responsibility of the Ministry).
I read somewhere that in the U.S. about 46% of healthcare is funded via the guvment, i.e. “taxes”. So if we’re taxed at a rate 40% higher than we are now, we can attain The Norway Model in the U.S. Sweeeeeet....
How does Norway’s guvment oversee the operational costs?
19. The hospital reform has established five geographically-based Regional Health Enterprises
(RHE) each reporting to the Ministry of Health and responsible for delivering health services in their
regions. The RHEs own the 33 local health trusts and are responsible for monitoring their costs and
quality of services.14,15 The central government still defines their main health policy objectives as well as
their financial means. The eastern health enterprise along with its trusts is the largest one covering 40% of
the Norwegian population.
Sounds like a lot of red tape to me, but they love the red tape in D.C., and mikkey says that guvment can be trusted with our healthcare:
25. Since their establishment in 2002, all RHEs except the eastern one have constantly run deficits,
reaching around NOK 2 billion in 2003 and 2004 (around EUR 250 million), reflecting higher production
than originally expected (Table 3). Hospital sector deficits are not included in the Norwegian measure of
public sector deficits. If health enterprises treat more patients than budgeted for initially, then in principle
the state should reimburse only 60% of the average costs through the activity-based component while the
block-grant component should be left unchanged. As 60% of average costs is probably lower than total
marginal costs, treating more patients than budgeted for should not be remunerative for health enterprises.
Now we’re talking about deficits, treating more patients than “budgeted for” (no, that’s not scary) and remunerative costs. Seems kind of IRS-ish to me, but what do I know? But it’s all free:
29. This investment surge was unexpected especially because higher efficiency had generated overcapacity
in many health trusts. RHEs had accordingly started to close down some small local hospitals or
departments while others have been merged. However, restructuring has met with local opposition and, in
some cases, the Ministry of Health has intervened. Restructuring has been less than optimal and
overcapacity remains an issue exacerbated by the hospital investment boom. Some public hospitals have
started to look for clients through advertising.
Closing down hospitals, overcapacity, blah blah… Wot, me worry? It’s free…
I don’t know if it’s “fair” to link The Norway Model and Norwegian taxes together, but seeing that the Norwegian taxpayers account for 85% of the funds that provide the free healthcare in the egalitarian Utopia of Norway, I’m going to do it. To hear the wikipedians talk about it, because Norway is oil rich and they’ve become adept at redistributing their wealth, everyone is happy and blissfull (never mind the suicide rates) in the land of the North:
Norwegians have long accepted high taxes to finance their social welfare state, but a new survey indicates rising dissatisfaction and, in some cases, outright hatred of some taxes that are viewed as way too high and unfair.
Norwegians are among the most heavily taxed people in the world, and that in turn has made Norway one of the most expensive countries in which to live. Most accept the taxes they’re ordered to pay on income and even net worth and property, but growing numbers are publicly complaining about sky-high taxes on everything from cars to fuel to consumer goods.
Now it’s sounding like someone’s pissed:
Norwegians differentiate between skatter (taxes) and avgifter (duties, fees or user taxes) and the latter is the most hated. They’re what causes a glass of house wine at an Oslo restaurant to cost the equivalent of nearly USD 16, or a gallon of gas to cost nearly USD 9 at current exchange rates.
”It’s clear that taxes are much too high in oil-rich Norway,” Oslo resident Gro Pettersen told newspaper Aftenposten. “It’s sick!”
Now wait just a minute, Gro. Without that taxation you wouldn’t be able to indulge in all the aforementioned healthcare benefits that you’re eligible for, let alone enjoy the highest level of egalitarian living known to man, woman and child. You’re livin’ the dream, Gro.
The taxes placed on new cars, which can more than double the price of the car itself, are another bone of contention, even though most Norwegians support measures to protect the environment. ”The car tax is much too high, but so are most all the other avgifter also,” said Ernst Bendiksen of the northern city of Vadsø, where Norwegians are far more dependent on their cars than those living in cities with good public transit systems. ”We certainly don’t get anything in return for them.”
But you get that warm fuzzy feeling inside that you’re all the same. You’re all equal, Ernst, that’s the way egalitarian, socialist states work. By the way, if you think those car taxes are used only for protecting the environment, I’ve got some oil rich swamp land that you might be interested in.
A study conducted by research firm MMI for the Norwegian Tax Payers Association (Skattebetalerforeningen) showed that the most hated taxes are those on new cars and a transfer tax levied when real estate changes hands. The so-called dokumentavgift on real estate transactions, which implies that it’s meant to cover the costs of property registration, costs homebuyers around 2.5 percent of the purchase price.
Three of four Norwegians believe that’s too high, according to the MMI study, and absolutely no one believed it was too low. With even a modest flat in Oslo costing a few million kroner these days, the tax amounts to a fair bit of change.
With you Norwegians it’s always “bitch, bitch, bitch”. But you have all that free healthcare. And oil. And you’re all equal.
The study also showed that 67 percent of the population think Norway’s inheritance taxes are too high, while 63 percent think fuel taxes are too high. Norway’s hefty 25 percent VAT (like a sales tax) on nearly all consumer items is considered too high by 53 percent of the population.
Only 32 percent, meanwhile, believed tobacco taxes are too high, while 44 percent believed liquor taxes are too high.
You’re moaning about a 25% sales tax on virtually all consumer items? That’s only 4 times the sales tax that I pay here in the People’s Republic of Michigan. And I don’t get free healthcare like you Norwegian folk do. Well, at least everyone feels the pain equally, because you’re all like, equal and free to get all the free healthcare you want. It’s just like checking out a library book.
The user taxes, or avgifter, are also unpopular because they’re largely regressive taxes that hit people with low incomes much harder than those with high incomes. Filling the car’s gas tank, and paying the taxes that requires, is much more expensive for someone earning NOK 300,000 than it is for a car owner earning NOK 900,000.
There’s got to be a solution to all of this hostility and cynicism that’s hovering like a black cloud over the land of Black Metal:
The head of the tax payers’ association, Jon Stordrange, said he thinks user taxes should be adjusted to reflect actual costs inflicted on society. “Then I think people would have more respect for the system,” he said.
”It’s clear that taxes are much too high in oil-rich Norway,” Oslo resident Gro Pettersen told newspaper Aftenposten. “It’s sick!”
Isn’t democracy wonderful? Gro has the freedom to bad mouth a tyrannical tax system that still can’t fund all the free health care the governement doles out. Sorta reminds me of where U.S. Medicare is headed.
Exactly. And you have to realise that these two articles were written a few years after Norway put some healthcare reforms into place. In the late 90’s the major complaints about their healthcare was a lack of facilities and doctors (note that their RHE’s have continued to shut down local hospitals) and long wait times.
Imagine going to your local Subaru dealership and working out a price of $25,000 for a new WRX. Add 25% for the sales tax and the new total is $31,250. Then, double the original price of the car to pay the avgifter tax and you’re paying $56,250 for that new Subie. The taxes you’d pay make up 56% of your total bill for that car. That’s some kind of free healthcare and other socilialized guvment services. Not to mention paying $16 for a glass of wine and 9$ for a gallon of gas. And can you imagine paying $9 for a gallon of gasoline in a country that’s a major oil producer? That is sick.
How many cigars are in a box, anyway? And does that include Tiparello’s and such? The tax has to be higher than the price of the product. But I’m quite certain that they’re “doing it for the children” and all. That is pure tyranny and demands another Tea Party.
Imagine the many ways they’ll be paying for our “free” universal healthcare.
Hi. I’m Norwegian, and to top it all off, I work in healthcare. Reading some of the comments around this site, it seems I have bought into Communist propaganda, but I’m actually quite happy over here. Yes, I’m taxed, but I cope very well, and I’m actually happy to pay my taxes. In an odd way, my own taxes actually pays my own wages. No, me and the wife do not own our own house, and we live in one of the most expensive towns, when it comes to rent, in Norway. Seeing as I’m a student with a part-time job, and she works in what Americans refer to as a kindergarten, one should believe we are dirt poor, if you use any of the arguments around this site.
About the current state of Norwegian healthcare; It’s managing OK, but yes, some of the administrative regions are threatening to close down smaller hospitals, which I, as a matter of course, find appalling. Still, to find an easy comparison, armies of the world constantly report deficits in their budgets. Why? If you have a budget-deficit, the government won’t cut funding.
As a patient, I’ve never had anything to complain about, except maybe the small fee I have to pay my GP for a consultation, but other than that I’m fine. Yes, I’ve spent a maximum of three hours waiting for a doctor, but then again, my ailments were of a small priority in comparison to other patients. Seeing as we’re pregnant for the time being, we have a lot of contact with healthcare-institutions, all of which, in a sense, is free. Yes, of course, I know I’ve paid my taxes. It’s fine by me, and the missus for that matter.
Norwegian healtcare is by no means a Utopia, but it works for us, mostly. There is always the factor of human error, but even ‘God’s Own Country(tm)’, is sometimes a victim of that.
Besides; There was someone mentioning that Norwegian economy was propped up by oil, while not being untrue, it still doesn’t answer how Norway managed to keep all these ‘socialist’ boons as universal healthcare before we accidentally struck oil, and doing a much better job at it, too. Lastly, Sweden and Denmark have more or less the identical system as ourselves, without the oil. How do they do it, the system only can be kept up with exorbitant amounts of oil-profits, which they don’t have?
About the current state of Norwegian healthcare; It’s managing OK, but yes, some of the administrative regions are threatening to close down smaller hospitals, which I, as a matter of course, find appalling.
The best thing to do is to protest. Candle-lit vigils, chanting, wearing a Che pullover, maybe roll around nude in the snow, just like you would at your sauna for your health drawing attention to your case, and heck, even highlight the effects of global warming.
You’re happy paying your own wages? You’re happy with 3 hour waiting times in hospitals? You’re happy being taxed out of your gourd? The fact is that a lot of your countrymen and women aren’t happy about being taxed at one of the highest rates in the world. I guess egalatarianism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
The point about your oil based economy is that it shouldn’t be failing its health system as there should be plenty of money to fund it, especially with your high taxes. The fact is that you’re shutting down hospitals in areas where they need them the most. The northern provinces in Canada are having the same problems and they’re experiencing an oil boom as well. Same system, same amount of wealth = same results--hospitals closing up shop and citizens going to other lands for treatment.
On a side note, Evergrey is one of my favorite bands and Soilwork is right up there, too. But I won’t hold you responsible for that…
Hi. I’m Norwegian, and to top it all off, I work in healthcare. Reading some of the comments around this site, it seems I have bought into Communist propaganda, but I’m actually quite happy over here.
I wouldn’t argue your system doesn’t meet most people’s needs well. I’d speculate (based on what I know about similar systems in English speaking countries… ie, because I can get more info about them) those with expensive to treat conditions that may also require specialised equipment may not be having their needs met well. I’d also speculate there is little innovation in your medical sector. Then there are the cost over runs which I don’t have to speculate about (a basic law of econ, people have unlimited wants… when things are presented as ‘free’ in most cases, you can never provide enough ‘free’… ergo shortages).
We are hitting political problems with our health system now because economically people do want to pay extra for insurance that provides for them in the event of rare and hard to treat problems but don’t understand the connection/s between cost and level of service. Its a common problem, that people’s political side has different notions that their economic side. They are willing to pay and do want the services… but then resent paying for it… and want a political solution to a economic decision. What they miss is, there is no political solution in this type of case. If the government manages health care they will do it like a large HMO… by limiting services and procedures to lower costs… as most public / politicised health care is handled in western countries… but even then, its still going to be more than the politicians let on (then again, we should know better by now about trusting them about costs)…
I guess egalatarianism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be.
There are quite a few folks who (would) fully enjoy lives scripted by their governments from cradle to grave.
Absolutely, and there is nothing inherently wrong with that, even though you actively look down on them every day. If they happen to live in a democratic country, that’s what they can vote for. Doesn’t mean you have to like it.
Leaving aside your usual hyperbole of course.
...but on the other hand you have folks who destroy themselves in spite, or perhaps even because of their bloodsucking safety net.
And “hyperbole”.. Hm, another long word I’m not too familiar with. Is that, like, when you say GLOBAL WARMING IS REAL AND ITS GOING TO KILL US ALL IF WE DON’T ROLL NAKED UNDER TREES AND IMPEACH BUSHITLER TO SAVE THE PENGUINS AND THE OZONE !!
Yes the last part would certainly throw it into a hyperbole!
But then your first sentence is as well.
I’m not even sure whether you can tell the difference anymore.
