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Posted: 13 November 2007 08:17 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 101 ]
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So the piece was probably put on page 19 because it’s a claim, at a certain point in time, which may or may not turn out to be true

God you are such a disigenuous moronic half-wit.  You probably actually think you are somehow providing some neutral viewpoint and by posting all you negative shit you are providing “balance and context” don’t you?

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Posted: 15 November 2007 04:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 102 ]
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Buzzion - 13 November 2007 08:17 PM

So the piece was probably put on page 19 because it’s a claim, at a certain point in time, which may or may not turn out to be true

God you are such a disigenuous moronic half-wit.  You probably actually think you are somehow providing some neutral viewpoint and by posting all you negative shit you are providing “balance and context” don’t you?

Sorry yes I forgot that there is only one side of everything. Apologies, fuckwit. Please, continue to post only desperate positive shit to make yourself feel better.

Nearly 1000 persons a month are still being killed there even by the sketchy official statistics; as late as this September, the number of displaced persons increased by 16%; there is now active fighting on a new front, between Turkey and the Kurds holed up in northern Iraq; security is apparently collapsing in the port city of Basra; and Baghdad has in the past 10 months gone from 65% Shiite to 75% Shiite. But hey, little Ahmed got a new spiral notebook to write in.

Arsewipe.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 04:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 103 ]
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Hmm, whats the death rate per capita compared to say places in Africa or South America?

Dunno, if you are making a point then I guess it’s up to you to provide the data.

I mean, it sucks. But not all deaths are sectarian related (some are just crime)… but the bottom line is it is not our fault that a ME country is not Switzerland. Which raises the question, good or bad relative to what? And I’m sure there was less crime in the old USSR police state than Russia today… there are costs to not being in totalitarian police state… along with the good.

Yeah but the crime deaths because there is very little law and order.

CM pulled a bartink worthy performance right there.

I honestly have no idea what you are talking about.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 05:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 104 ]
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Who’s the Enemy? In Iraq, It’s Getting Harder to Find Any Bad Guys
By Robert Dreyfuss

Who is the enemy? Who, exactly, are we fighting in Iraq? Why are we there? And what’s our objective?

Nearly five years into the war, the answers to basic questions like these ought to be obvious. In the Alice in Wonderland-like wilderness of mirrors that is Iraq, though, they’re anything but.

We aren’t fighting the Sunnis. Not any more, anyway. Virtually the entire Sunni establishment, from the moderate Muslim Brotherhood-linked Iraqi Islamic Party (which has been part of every Iraqi government since 2003) to the Anbar tribal alliance (which has been begging for U.S. support since 2004 and only recently got it) is either actively cooperating with the American military or sullenly tolerating what it hopes will be a receding occupation. Across Sunni-dominated parts of Iraq, the United States is helping to build army and police units as well as neighborhood patrols—the Pentagon calls them “concerned citizens”—out of former resistance fighters, with the blessing of tribal leaders in Anbar, Diyala, and Salahuddin provinces, parts of Baghdad, and areas to the south of the capital. We have met the enemy, and—surprise!—they are friends or, if not that, at least not active enemies. Attacks on U.S. forces in Sunni-dominated areas, including the once-violent hot-bed city of Ramadi, Anbar’s capital, have fallen dramatically.

Among the hard-core Sunni resistance, there is also significant movement toward a political accord—if the United States were willing to accept it. Twenty-two Iraqi insurgent groups announced the creation of a united front, under the leadership of Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, a former top Baath party official of the Saddam era, and they have opened talks with Iyad Allawi, a secular Shia who was Iraq’s first post-Saddam prime minister.

We aren’t fighting the Shia. The Shia merchant class and elite, organized into the mostly pro-Iranian Supreme Iraqi Islamic Council and the Islamic Dawa party, are part of the Iraqi government that the United States created and supports—and whose army and police are armed and trained by the United States. The far more popular forces of Muqtada al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army aren’t the enemy either. In late August, Sadr declared a ceasefire, ordering his militia to stand down; and, since then, attacks on U.S. forces in Shia-dominated areas of Iraq have fallen off very sharply, too. Though recent, provocative attacks by U.S. troops, in conjunction with Iraqi forces, on Sadr strongholds in Baghdad, Diwaniya, and Karbala have caused Sadr to threaten to cancel the ceasefire order, and though intra-Shia fighting is still occurring in many parts of southern Iraq, there is no Shia enemy that justifies a continued American presence in Iraq, either.

And we certainly aren’t fighting the Kurds. For decades, the Kurds have been America’s (and Israel’s) closest allies in Iraq. Since 2003, the three Kurdish-dominated provinces have been relatively peaceful.

We’re not exactly fighting Al Qaeda any more either. Despite President Bush’s near-frantic efforts to portray the war in Iraq as a last-ditch, Alamo-like stand against Osama bin Laden’s army, U.S. commanders on the ground in Iraq are having a hard time finding pockets of Al Qaeda to attack these days, though the group still has the power to conduct deadly attacks now and then. In recent weeks, General David Petraeus, Ambassador Ryan Crocker, and other authorities have pretty much declared Al Qaeda in Iraq (AQI) dead and buried. That happy funeral is the result not of brilliant U.S. counterinsurgency efforts, but of the determination of our newfound Sunni allies to exterminate the group. No lesser authority than General Petraeus himself now admits that Al Qaeda has been expelled from every single one of its strongholds in Baghdad. In Anbar Province, according to Crocker, “People do feel the weight’s off. Al Qaeda is simply gone.”

And, nearly a year after President Bush proclaimed Iran to be Public Enemy No. 1 in Iraq, blaming Tehran for supporting both Al Qaeda and Shia militias, things are even getting better on that front. Last week, Secretary of Defense Robert Gates declared that Iran had quietly promised to halt the smuggling of weapons and advanced roadside bombs into Iraq. “I don’t know whether to believe them. I’ll wait and see,” he said, in what was a rather dramatic downgrading of the White House’s warnings about Iran.

Confirming Gates’ comments, General Ray Odierno, the commanding general of the multinational forces in Iraq, noted a sharp decline in the use of EFP’s (explosively formed penetrators), the sort of IED that the United States blames Iran for supplying. In July, Odierno said, there were 99 EFP’s used against U.S. forces; in August, 78; in September, 52; and in October, 53. Partly as a result, Crocker announced that he is resuming a dialogue with his Iranian counterpart, Ambassador Hassan Kazemi-Qomi, soon. At the same time, the United States announced its intention to release a number of Iranians detained in Iraq, a move seen as a good-will gesture toward Tehran.

Surge or Not, Things Are Getting Better

All in all, violence in Iraq has dropped precipitously since late summer. With Al Qaeda declared dead, former Sunni resistance fighters wearing American-supplied uniforms, and the Mahdi Army lying low, killings in Iraq are way down. The security situation in Iraq is far better than it’s been at any time since 2005. Many American antiwar critics, who are invested in the notion that no good news can come out of Iraq and who (secretly or openly) revel in the Bush administration’s Iraqi failures, are reluctant to admit that things are getting better.

Perhaps they worry that, if the situation in Iraq improves, the prospect of Democratic gains at the polls next November will diminish. Perhaps they’ve convinced themselves that Iraq’s ethnic and sectarian divide is so enormous that partition is the only solution, and that Iraq doesn’t deserve to be a country anyway. Perhaps their distaste for President Bush (which I share) is so all-consuming that they fear any improvement in the situation will be credited to the President—something they can’t tolerate.

If so, that’s perverse. The fact is: There is a critical window of opportunity opening for the United States to withdraw and for Iraq to hold itself together and rebuild. To the extent that things are getting better, that’s good news. The majority of Americans—from the left to conservative realists—who want the United States to get out of Iraq quickly ought to seize this news and push for an acceleration of the momentum for withdrawal. Certainly, as the polls all indicate, this is the course Americans generally want their politicians to follow.

There’s really no disputing the improvement since August. According to the careful compilers at the website icasualties.org, both U.S. and Iraqi deaths have fallen dramatically. In May, June, and July, more than a hundred Americans were killed each month; for August, September, and October the totals were 84, 65, and 38. For Iraqis, the numbers have been even more dramatic, with Iraqi military and civilian deaths falling from 3,000 per month earlier this year to 848 and 679 in September and October. There are, of course, other counts, and reliable statistics are hard to come by in Iraq, but there’s no doubt that the numbers represent something real, that the violence is down in Baghdad and most of the rest of the country.

There is other, anecdotal news to support the notion that security is better these days. Last week, Iraqi officials announced that, since the summer, 46,000 Iraqis have returned to the war-torn capital. Hundreds of shops are reopening; taxi drivers say the streets are far safer; and Christian Berthelsen and Said Rifai the Los Angeles Times report that “the booze business has rebounded” after years of puritanical suppression by Islamists, another sign that Al Qaeda has been driven from the premises. On November 3, the Associated Press reported that an entire day passed in Baghdad without a single bombing or shooting. That same day, according to Agence France Press, the U.S. Air Force, for the first time in memory, declared that it had carried out not a single bombing raid or combat mission anywhere in Iraq, due to an “improved security situation.”

In Anbar Province, including its capital, Ramadi, the news is rather remarkable. In January, attacks on U.S. forces in Ramadi came at the rate of 30 per day; today, there is less than one a day. During the recent month-long Ramadan holiday, there were only four attacks on U.S. forces; during Ramadan 2006, there were 442.

None of this means that Iraq has become Sweden. It’s still a violent place. There is no real government; the economy is in shambles; basic services --- electricity, water, trash collection—are nonexistent; and most areas of the country are ruled by militias, gangs, criminal elements, or local warlords. But for the first time since the invasion in March 2003, there is a real opportunity for the two main blocs of Iraqi Arabs, the Sunni and Shia communities, to strike a deal. If such a deal were indeed struck, the Kurds would have little choice but to buy into it. Problem is, the United States cannot broker the deal. Having spent five years boosting sectarianism in Iraq, killing innocent Iraqis, busting down doors in small villages, and trying to turn Iraq into an American colony, the United States simply has no credibility left.

Any deal we broker, any leader we promote, any government we sponsor has just gotten the kiss of death. What unites Iraqi Arabs, from the Sunni resistance to the Mahdi Army, is opposition to the U.S. occupation of Iraq, as well as opposition to Al Qaeda and to Iran’s heavy-handed interference in Iraqi affairs.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 05:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 105 ]
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http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/174861

There we go Buzzion, I’ve posted something which suggests ‘Things Are Getting Better’.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 05:53 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 106 ]
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Here is another.

US general: Iran sticking by pledge

By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer 20 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Iran seems to be honoring a commitment to stem the flow of deadly weapons into Iraq, contributing to a more than 50 percent drop in the number of roadside bombs that kill and maim American troops, a U.S. general said Thursday.
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The comments by Maj. Gen. James Simmons marked rare U.S. praise for Iranian cooperation in efforts to stabilize Iraq. Washington has repeatedly accused the Islamic Republic of aiding Shiite militias and trying to foil U.S. goals in Iraq and the region.

Link

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Posted: 15 November 2007 06:05 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 107 ]
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Again, whether this will be sustained is something that only time will tell us. As that article I posted suggests, unless the opportunities are taken, things could slide back again.
Juan Cole’s guess is that Iraqis will go on fighting their three wars, for control of Basra among Shiite militiamen; for control of Baghdad and its hinterlands between Sunnis and Shiites; and for control of Kirkuk among Kurds, Arabs and Turkmen. They will fight these wars to a conclusion or a stalemate. It is only the battle for Baghdad that has been fought at a lower intensity because of the American surge in any case, and I would be surprised if it does not start back up as US troops leave.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 06:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 108 ]
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I want what is best for the Iraqi people.
If only they knew what they wanted.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 06:45 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 109 ]
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CM - 15 November 2007 04:22 PM

But hey, little Ahmed got a new spiral notebook to write in.

I’d bless him with a suicide belt- not a real one, just for play, of course - after I checked the lead levels in its paint made in China.

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COMMUNISM HAS ONLY KILLED 100 MILLION PEOPLE… let’s give it another chance.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:06 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 110 ]
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Rapid R - 15 November 2007 06:22 PM

I want what is best for the Iraqi people.
If only they knew what they wanted.

Yep I certainly want what is best for the Iraqi people, and for conditions to improve so that the most educated can return and take part in re-building it.

I believe an overwhelming amount know what they want. They just happen to be the ones trying to get on with their lives.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:10 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 111 ]
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CM - 15 November 2007 07:06 PM

Yep I certainly want what is best for the Iraqi people, and for conditions to improve so that the most educated can return and take part in re-building it.

Thinking people conveniently ignore that Iraq was broken long before we got there.

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COMMUNISM HAS ONLY KILLED 100 MILLION PEOPLE… let’s give it another chance.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:18 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 112 ]
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biafra - 15 November 2007 07:10 PM

CM - 15 November 2007 07:06 PM
Yep I certainly want what is best for the Iraqi people, and for conditions to improve so that the most educated can return and take part in re-building it.

Thinking people conveniently ignore that Iraq was broken long before we got there.

Non-thinking people are always there to remind them though, even though they never claimed otherwise.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:22 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 113 ]
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Rapid R - 15 November 2007 05:53 PM

Here is another.

US general: Iran sticking by pledge

By ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writer 20 minutes ago

BAGHDAD - Iran seems to be honoring a commitment to stem the flow of deadly weapons into Iraq, contributing to a more than 50 percent drop in the number of roadside bombs that kill and maim American troops, a U.S. general said Thursday.
ADVERTISEMENT

The comments by Maj. Gen. James Simmons marked rare U.S. praise for Iranian cooperation in efforts to stabilize Iraq. Washington has repeatedly accused the Islamic Republic of aiding Shiite militias and trying to foil U.S. goals in Iraq and the region.

Link

That’s impressive

CM said:
Again, whether this will be sustained is something that only time will tell us. As that article I posted suggests, unless the opportunities are taken, things could slide back again.

CM, in that sentence alone (responding to the above quote by Rapid), you’re naysaying.  It’s almost like you’re coming across that you don’t want success, and when there is any, you have to preach doom and gloom to keep the ball rolling.  How about this:  “WOW, that’s encouraging, perhaps we are on our way to victory at last”.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:31 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 114 ]
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No I think it’s being realistic and not relying on something that doesn’t prove a whole hell of a lot.
For a start, this whole ‘we are winning’ is relying on forced seperation of ethnicities. Is that a long term, or even medium term, solution? Since when did forcing people from their homes and neighbourhoods make everyone happier?

Nationally, 11 percent of all Iraqis surveyed in August 2007 reported that ethnic cleansing—the forced separation of Sunnis and Shiites—had occurred in their neighborhoods… In mixed-population Baghdad, 27 percent of all Iraqis surveyed in August 2007 reported that ethnic cleansing—the forced separation of Sunnis and Shiites—had occurred in their neighborhoods. As of March 2007, one in seven Iraqis overall—rising to a quarter of Sunni Arabs, and more than a third of Baghdad residents—said they themselves have moved homes in the last year to avoid violence or religious persecution…

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/iraqis_doubtful_of_improvement.html#more

I’m not convinced that this isn’t just a dangerous sticking-plaster gamble, rather than any kind of solution.

The whole concept of this meaning that I “don’t want success” or that it’s me preaching “gloom and doom” is confusing to me. To me, ignoring issues like that for the sake of ‘thinking positively’ (or whatever) is just being willfully ignorant. Seems that the ‘success’ yardstick is forever being moved and as time goes by people will accept less and less as ‘the path to victory’ and will then turn around and slap those who dare to question it.
It reminds me that what I consider ‘success’ might be quite different to how others see it.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:42 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 115 ]
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CM - 15 November 2007 07:18 PM

biafra - 15 November 2007 07:10 PM
CM - 15 November 2007 07:06 PM
Yep I certainly want what is best for the Iraqi people, and for conditions to improve so that the most educated can return and take part in re-building it.

Thinking people conveniently ignore that Iraq was broken long before we got there.

Non-thinking people are always there to remind them though, even though they never claimed otherwise.

What thinkers claim is to care about Iraqis, which they never did before.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 07:48 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 116 ]
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biafra - 15 November 2007 07:42 PM

CM - 15 November 2007 07:18 PM
biafra - 15 November 2007 07:10 PM
CM - 15 November 2007 07:06 PM
Yep I certainly want what is best for the Iraqi people, and for conditions to improve so that the most educated can return and take part in re-building it.

Thinking people conveniently ignore that Iraq was broken long before we got there.

Non-thinking people are always there to remind them though, even though they never claimed otherwise.

What thinkers claim is to care about Iraqis, which they never did before.

As evidenced by photos of some of them smiling at a protest/demo. Yawn.

As opposed to non-thinkers, who care somewhat less about them now that they have been shown to be ‘ungrateful’ after being delivered salvation.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 09:03 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 117 ]
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CM - 15 November 2007 07:48 PM

As evidenced by photos of some of them smiling at a protest/demo. Yawn.

When were these photos taken?

This one is a good example of the inherent bias you too posess.

W_SHOT_wideweb__470x283,0.jpg

Bedford-Stuyvesant resident Calvin Hunt holds up a hairbrush as he addresses the media after police shot dead local teenager Khiel Coppin.

So whats the story?  Ah. Who cares about backstory, circumstances, evidence, or forensics when you already know the facts.

At the scene, New York City councillor Charles Barron said: “How many times are they going to come on the scene and then lead to an unnecessary killing?

“This young man should still be alive today. His mother should be able to call the police department and get protection, not like she’s dialling M for murder.”

So it was murder. Sure, the victim had a black hairbrush, not that more obvious red, but the point is clear, and the verdict is murder.

I’ve asked you this several times now: Please do show me one single solitary pre-Bushitler anti-Saddam demo held in any Western country by non-Iraqis.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 09:27 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 118 ]
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I don’t personally know of any off-hand and I’m not going to make anything up or go searching. So what do you conclude from that? I’m presuming you’ll ignore the all-too-obvious point that people usually demonstrate or protest against something their own government is doing. Western public opposition to the behaviour of other governments with respect to their own people isn’t usually something that gets people out into the street. I would imagine that if my government had done something to support Saddam, people would have protested. My government did something that some people saw as giving support to the apartheid government of South Africa, and it turned into a major part of our history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_Springbok_Tour which is still talked about today http://www.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=340&objectid;=10472401

Were the pro-war supporters holding demos displaying their sympathy for Iraqis and demanding justice (by any means necessary)?
If not, why not? If not, does that mean we have no reason to believe you were ever against Saddam and on the side of the average Iraqi?

Perhaps street protesting isn’t most scientific or even sensible way of measuring opposition to something.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 09:38 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 119 ]
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CM - 15 November 2007 07:06 PM

Rapid R - 15 November 2007 06:22 PM
I want what is best for the Iraqi people.
If only they knew what they wanted.

Yep I certainly want what is best for the Iraqi people, and for conditions to improve so that the most educated can return and take part in re-building it.

I believe an overwhelming amount know what they want. They just happen to be the ones trying to get on with their lives.

If most desire peace, why isn’t there more peace?
If it is an overwhelming amount, why are they not overwhelming the violent few that are not allowing it to happen? I feel if I was living in such a situation, I would find it untenable. I would be turning the violent jerks in as fast as I could, so my kid could walk to school without fear. That didn’t seem to be happening in the beginning, although I have read that is becoming more the case now.
It appears some are so fed up, they are turning people in. Even if they do it because they realize we will leave quicker, they are doing something.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 09:59 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 120 ]
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I can only imagine that life is hard enough without risking the lives of your family by standing up to the heavily armed militia in your neighbourhood, who are much more interested and capable of ensuring their interests are met than you.

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Posted: 15 November 2007 11:14 PM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 121 ]
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estern public opposition to the behaviour of other governments with respect to their own people isn’t usually something that gets people out into the street.

i seem to recall protests in plenty of countries other than coalition ones

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Posted: 16 November 2007 01:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 122 ]
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CM - 15 November 2007 09:59 PM

I can only imagine that life is hard enough without risking the lives of your family by standing up to the heavily armed militia in your neighbourhood, who are much more interested and capable of ensuring their interests are met than you.

I could imagine that too, enough so that people are fleeing the country, as we have already discussed. At that point, I am not sure why a plea to the authorities would endanger your family any more if they are already in danger just for being there.
You had also stated earlier:

I believe an overwhelming amount know what they want. They just happen to be the ones trying to get on with their lives.

I amend my earlier statement: I want what is best for the Iraqi people.
If only they knew what the best was, or wanted it bad enough.

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Posted: 17 November 2007 11:47 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 123 ]
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CM - 15 November 2007 09:27 PM

Perhaps street protesting isn’t most scientific or even sensible way of measuring opposition to something.

Its probably (become) one of the least effective tools