What happened in Bali was fascinating stuff. Historic even. Sure, environmentalists would call it historic, but I mean from a geopolitical standput. That’s because America looked weak. I think America is right to expect more from China and India and other developing nations. But they seemed to lack the ability to project any authority in the talks. I mean the Papua New Guinea delegate gave a speech and everyone cheered. The Americans spoke and everyone booed. So then the Americans backed down. Can you believe that? USA 0 Papua Fuckin’ New Guinea 1
America is looking anything but a superpower, right now. It is fighting a military battle in the Middle East on various fronts with differing results, a currency battle with the Euro which it is flat out losing, an economic battle with China and India which sees America losing more and more of it’s slice of the pie. A geopolitical battle with a rapidly rearming Russia, which America is powerless to confront. Throw in Iran, North Korea, Venezuela. Throw in their growing inability to negotiate with OPEC. Throw in the growing divide inside America’s own borders (the culture war). America’s getting squeezed from all sides and they just aren’t in a position to throw their weight around.
This in turn gives confidence to foreign leaders and delegates to go on the counterattack. They know they can score points domestically by attacking America. It’s not just from the likes of Chavez, anti-Americanism goes down pretty well everywhere at the moment.
That’s one thing I’d factor in if I were voting for President. Can America afford another President (Fred Thompson, Mitt Romney come to mind) who’d be massively unpopular overseas? You might think that it doesn’t matter what others think, but I think it does. Bali shows that the US no longer has the leverage to pull in another direction from the rest of the world.
I am wondering how other countries would like it if we told them who they should vote for, and how they would respond.
I thought Anti-americanism didn’t exist? Every time we bring that up here, it brought ridicule. Now you are saying it does exist?
It seems to me that there is no way to reverse it other than letting other countries tell us what to do. If that isn’t a definition of weak, I am not sure what is.
Edit:spelling and clarity.
I doesn’t matter to most how the US getting bitch slapped into submission will eventually effect their countries and lives, only that it happened, finally. Whoohoo! The Dallas Cowboys lost to the Eagles yesterday too. Woohoo!! Death to the Cowboys.
To somehow fantasize that re-emerging world power Russia will be any nobler than the old USSR, or that India or China give a well, flying Chinese, about your wilting trees is kinda nearsighted.
Sure theres gonna be a trade spike in solidarity with Papua New Guinea, which is bound to make em cut down some more of their own trees, but what if they someday decide they want the Old Guinea by riddnig itself of all Kraut and Australian influence?
The Bali conference reminds me that I’m SOOOOOOO glad Al Gore isn’t president. He would have committed us to all sorts of poorly thought-out treaties, prohibitions, and government controls. Whether he would do so to satisfy his own messianic self-image or to make us more “popular” doesn’t matter. “Everyone else is doing it,” didn’t work for my parents and it won’t work for me.
The irony is that if everybody but the U.S. suffers from economic self-flagellation and global warming turns out to be a small deal, we’ll still be accused of imperialism (or some other retro-pejorative) for being so dominant and uncaring as to not even suffer alongside our bretheren. It makes me care even less about what Papua New Guinea speech everyone else cheered for. If they need us onboard, it helps to want us onboard. If nobody wants the U.S. to tell them to sit in the corner and do what they’re told, they sure as hell shouldn’t say that very same thing to the U.S.
Well let’s see. They’ve done such awesome things as....uhhh...I’m thinking, give me a minute...Uhh....condemning Israel? No, no, there’s gotta be something better...uhh...Their efforts to resolve the Israel/Palestinian conflict? Nope, we’ve all seen how that works…
Oh, here we go, this should be more to your liking - The USGA condemn the US. And again. Let’s ask the Sudanese how effective the UN General Assembly is, that is if you can find any left alive.
I’m not really saying the UN has done absolutely nothing, it’s just that they do a whole lot of nothing for all the money the organization swallows. Sounds kinda like the US Congress now that I think about it.
I don’t see that the GA making statements that you disagree with makes them ‘pointless’. Perhaps ‘pointless’ is the wrong word for what you meant.
As for Sudan - no mention of the UNGA. However, it does point out what has stopped the UNSC:
China has offered Sudan support threatening to use its veto on the U.N. Security Council to protect Khartoum from sanctions and has been able to water down every resolution on Darfur in order to protect its interests in Sudan.
America looked weak
they seemed to lack the ability to project any authority
The Americans spoke and everyone booed
Americans backed down.
USA 0 Papua Fuckin’ New Guinea 1
America is looking anything but a superpower
fighting a currency battle with the Euro which it is flat out losing
an economic battle with China and India which sees America losing more and more
a rapidly rearming Russia, which America is powerless to confront
their growing inability to negotiate with OPEC
the growing divide inside America’s own borders (the culture war)
foreign leaders and delegates to go on the counterattack.
anti-Americanism goes down pretty well everywhere at the moment
Bali shows that the US no longer has the leverage to pull in another direction from the rest of the world
Wow. You sure got excited about it. Next thing you know a state or two will secede from our onholy union, lkeaving us with 50.
That’s one thing I’d factor in if I were voting for President. Can America afford another President (Fred Thompson, Mitt Romney come to mind) who’d be massively unpopular overseas? You might think that it doesn’t matter what others think, but I think it does. Bali
So metaphorically speaking the world is a class of high schoolers that finally broke free from to rally against the dominance of the bullying jocks and Barbie girls (i.e. US). The good kids are skipping classes to go dye their hair, get nose rings, studs and tattoos, blaring their emo music from boom boxes perched proudly atop their bicycles and stateboards in the parking lot, pooling their voices as a united moral minority “Schools Out Forever!!”
And if want to be popular at this New school under new rules it would behoove me to strip naked and flop in the grass around some trees that are in danger of being cut down for the jocks’ new stadium.
I think I’ll pass.
Yeah, sorry, I did get a bit excited.
But my point is, I don’t think you can afford to pass anymore. America’s image problem is having a tangible impact on it’s influence.
By the way, PNG is just north of Australia, which used to be the 52nd island of New Zealand before breaking away.
I’ve posted about perception being the same as reality and how important PR is, whether one likes it or not. It’s fair to say it didn’t get a lot of traction.
I am wondering how other countries would like it if we told them who they should vote for, and how they would respond. I thought Anti-americanism didn’t exist? Every time we bring that up here, it brought ridicule. Now you are saying it does exist?
You never heard me say there’s no such thing as anti-Americanism. Sometimes it’s justified. America has made mistakes. Often it is not. But it’s definitely there, and it’s gotten much bigger since the Iraq War.
It seems to me that there is no way to reverse it other than letting other countries tell us what to do. If that isn’t a definition of weak, I am not sure what is.
My whole point is that America is losing it’s bargaining position. Your sentence implies that America has a choice between doing what other countries want and going it alone. I’m saying that the going-it-alone option isn’t really there anymore. It wasn’t weakness (of a moral kind) that make the Americans back down in Bali, it was weakness of political kind. They simply couldn’t afford the consequences of continuing to defy the will of the crowd.
Compare that with 2002, when most other countries in the world wanted America to not invade Iraq. America did it anyway. And as much as other countries might have grumbled (France), there was really nothing they could do because America held all the cards.
Just to make it absolutely clear, I’m not siding against the Americans on this. I’m not saying that it was good that America got booed. I’m just observing how interesting it is. I don’t know the exact details of the conference, but it’s not like the US was saying anything stupid like “global warming is a myth and we won’t do diddly”. What they were saying is global warming is a real problem and we want to help, but we want to make sure that other countries are taking action as well, and not over-burdening us. In that respect, the US was acting no differently that any other nation there (at least any other big nation). All of the main players wanted collective action to be taken, but they wanted to contribute as little as possible to that collective action. That’s diplomacy.
Somehow that got spun around so that it looked like America was playing political games while everyone else was saving the world. The fact that this perception was able to take hold is an indication of the depth of America’s image problem.
But my point is, I don’t think you can afford to pass anymore. America’s image problem is having a tangible impact on it’s influence.
By the way, PNG is just north of Australia, which used to be the 52nd island of New Zealand before breaking away.
I ‘ve said this before - I actually hope the US’ influence fades to the point where this global village thingy finally bursts forth and you walk in fields gold, or hemp, whatever. Of course if PNG winds up rotting for some reason I certianly will not lift a finger or donate a red cent to help them. The nobleman who bitch-slapped us and those who cheered him on should be ya’lls first and only point of contact.
But my point is, I don’t think you can afford to pass anymore. America’s image problem is having a tangible impact on it’s influence.
By the way, PNG is just north of Australia, which used to be the 52nd island of New Zealand before breaking away.
I ‘ve said this before - I actually hope the US’ influence fades to the point where this global village thingy finally bursts forth and you walk in fields gold, or hemp, whatever. Of course if PNG winds up rotting for some reason I certianly will not lift a finger or donate a red cent to help them. The nobleman who bitch-slapped us and those who cheered him on should be ya’lls first and only point of contact.
But my point is, I don’t think you can afford to pass anymore. America’s image problem is having a tangible impact on it’s influence.
By the way, PNG is just north of Australia, which used to be the 52nd island of New Zealand before breaking away.
I ‘ve said this before - I actually hope the US’ influence fades to the point where this global village thingy finally bursts forth and you walk in fields gold, or hemp, whatever. Of course if PNG winds up rotting for some reason I certianly will not lift a finger or donate a red cent to help them. The nobleman who bitch-slapped us and those who cheered him on should be ya’lls first and only point of contact.
