Considering these things keep happening in them and that all the existing social science research indicates that removing legal concealed weapons from the public… make it less safe (unless a very high level of armed security is provided… at all times… which it never is)… I’m thinking its time for victims families to start suing the owners of venues with mass shooting murders… They’re obviously endangering the public with the Gun Free Zones… sucking up to PCness / lefty ideology.. over public safety… and its getting people killed…
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (AFP) — Seven people were killed on Sunday in two separate shootings at religious establishments in the state of Colorado, local authorities said.
The first shooting occurred in Arvada, a suburb of Denver, in the early hours of Sunday when a young gunman opened fire at a Christian missionary center. Two staff members in their mid-20s were killed and two others wounded.
The gunman fled the shooting in Arvada before authorities reached the scene.
About 12 hours later five people were killed—including the suspected attacker—in a shooting near a church in Colorado Springs.
El Paso County Sheriff Terry Maketa told AFP there was “one gunman down” and “four deceased, possibly one wounded” in the incident but said the toll was “preliminary.”
It sounds like the gunman was shot by a security guard, which raises the argument that these things can be avoided or minimised if more people are armed. Who knows how many people the guard might have saved.
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado (AFP) — Seven people were killed on Sunday in two separate shootings at religious establishments in the state of Colorado, local authorities said.
The first shooting occurred in Arvada, a suburb of Denver, in the early hours of Sunday when a young gunman opened fire at a Christian missionary center. Two staff members in their mid-20s were killed and two others wounded.
The gunman fled the shooting in Arvada before authorities reached the scene.
About 12 hours later five people were killed—including the suspected attacker—in a shooting near a church in Colorado Springs.
El Paso County Sheriff Terry Maketa told AFP there was “one gunman down” and “four deceased, possibly one wounded” in the incident but said the toll was “preliminary.”
It sounds like the gunman was shot by a security guard, which raises the argument that these things can be avoided or minimised if more people are armed. Who knows how many people the guard might have saved.
Yeah, they probably didn’t expect an armed guard at a religious establishment.. I think they tend to be targets since people expect no one to be armed… as opposed to a police station, where people go “to attack” to get killed (suicide by cop) vs actually killing innocent people…
I remember having a discussion with a woman who was decidedly against guns in the hands of any civilian. She was in favor of having published lists of gun owners available for all to see who had guns in her neighborhood and she was shocked that I was in agreement with her. I responded “when a criminal looks online to find out that I have 6 or 8 guns and doesn’t see your address listed as a gun owner, whose house do you think he’ll choose to break into?” She decided she didn’t like the idea of gun owner lists.
Umm… did we have this problem in the 50s? Nope! So why? Umm… Gun laws were less strict then. Parents could beat the hell out of their kids. Schools had a SWAT team (note: this didn’t include men saying “hut hut hut").
Sorry, FC, but we did have mass shootings in the 50s—1957 to be more specific. Charlie Starkweather went on a shooting rampage across eastern Nebraska, killing seven people. In fact, one theory holds that Hawkins was inspired by a recent TV program marking the fiftieth anniversary of the Starkweather killings.
I remember having a discussion with a woman who was decidedly against guns in the hands of any civilian. She was in favor of having published lists of gun owners available for all to see who had guns in her neighborhood and she was shocked that I was in agreement with her. I responded “when a criminal looks online to find out that I have 6 or 8 guns and doesn’t see your address listed as a gun owner, whose house do you think he’ll choose to break into?” She decided she didn’t like the idea of gun owner lists.
I’d go steal the guns from the homes that have them (wait until you’re out).
I remember having a discussion with a woman who was decidedly against guns in the hands of any civilian. She was in favor of having published lists of gun owners available for all to see who had guns in her neighborhood and she was shocked that I was in agreement with her. I responded “when a criminal looks online to find out that I have 6 or 8 guns and doesn’t see your address listed as a gun owner, whose house do you think he’ll choose to break into?” She decided she didn’t like the idea of gun owner lists.
I’d go steal the guns from the homes that have them (wait until you’re out).
Better hope you time it right. ;0
I’ve heard more than one news report of criminals trying to do that (picking cops houses since they wanted guns). They’re dead now.
I remember having a discussion with a woman who was decidedly against guns in the hands of any civilian. She was in favor of having published lists of gun owners available for all to see who had guns in her neighborhood and she was shocked that I was in agreement with her. I responded “when a criminal looks online to find out that I have 6 or 8 guns and doesn’t see your address listed as a gun owner, whose house do you think he’ll choose to break into?” She decided she didn’t like the idea of gun owner lists.
I’d go steal the guns from the homes that have them (wait until you’re out).
Better hope you time it right. ;0
I’ve heard more than one news report of criminals trying to do that (picking cops houses since they wanted guns). They’re dead now.
Case the joint for a while. Just a matter of knowing how many are in the house and then personally seeing them leave.
Yeah not sure I’d choose a cop house. But then with the list you wouldn’t need to.
Case the joint for a while. Just a matter of knowing how many are in the house and then personally seeing them leave.
Yeah not sure I’d choose a cop house. But then with the list you wouldn’t need to.
Yeah, I guess I can’t be against reasonable requirements* that people have gun safes if they want to own guns.
* re: not punitive / not meant to be so expensive you can’t own guns.
Why require a gun safe? Why is that reasonable? Would you require a locked liquor cabinet? Booze kills too, you know. Isn’t it a bit invasive to tell people what they can do in their homes with otherwise legal “things”?
Why require a gun safe? Why is that reasonable? Would you require a locked liquor cabinet? Booze kills too, you know. Isn’t it a bit invasive to tell people what they can do in their homes with otherwise legal “things”?
Why require a gun safe? Why is that reasonable? Would you require a locked liquor cabinet? Booze kills too, you know. Isn’t it a bit invasive to tell people what they can do in their homes with otherwise legal “things”?
That or make it a crime to let your gun get stolen (which would then make people not want to report it) and/or allow people to sue those who have their gun stolen and used against others in crimes.... Then again, not everyone catches the serial number while being robbed, shot at, and/or pistol whipped. ;)
Umm… did we have this problem in the 50s? Nope! So why? Umm… Gun laws were less strict then. Parents could beat the hell out of their kids. Schools had a SWAT team (note: this didn’t include men saying “hut hut hut").
Sorry, FC, but we did have mass shootings in the 50s—1957 to be more specific. Charlie Starkweather went on a shooting rampage across eastern Nebraska, killing seven people. In fact, one theory holds that Hawkins was inspired by a recent TV program marking the fiftieth anniversary of the Starkweather killings.
Bruce Springsteen wrote a song about Charlie Starkweather. Or actually about the film Badlands, which was about Charlie Starkweather.
I saw her standin’ on her front lawn just twirlin’ her baton
Me and her went for a ride sir and ten innocent people died
From the town of Lincoln, Nebraska with a sawed off .410 on my lap
Through to the badlands of Wyoming I killed everything in my path
I can’t say that I’m sorry for the things that we done
At least for a little while sir me and her we had us some fun
The jury brought in a guilty verdict and the judge he sentenced me to death
Midnight in a prison storeroom with leather straps across my chest
Sheriff when the man pulls that switch sir and snaps my poor head back
You make sure my pretty baby is sittin’ right there on my lap
They declared me unfit to live said into that great void my soul’d be hurled
They wanted to know why I did what I did, well sir I guess there’s just a meanness in this world.
......
Maybe Bono will write a song about Robert Hawkins.
It sounds like the gunman was shot by a security guard, which raises the argument that these things can be avoided or minimised if more people are armed. Who knows how many people the guard might have saved.
Now its looking like the person was not a security guard. Just a private citizen. Not a gun free zone? Maybe…
Also, the target was chosen because the guy hated Christians.
Why require a gun safe? Why is that reasonable? Would you require a locked liquor cabinet? Booze kills too, you know. Isn’t it a bit invasive to tell people what they can do in their homes with otherwise legal “things”?
That or make it a crime to let your gun get stolen (which would then make people not want to report it) and/or allow people to sue those who have their gun stolen and used against others in crimes.... Then again, not everyone catches the serial number while being robbed, shot at, and/or pistol whipped. ;)
What good is a gun for home defense if it’s locked up in a gun safe?
A) You can case my joint all you want, but you still have to get past the dogs, which are keenly trained to “persuade” intruders to hightail it out of the house. My Chesapeake Bay Retriever has chased large black bears, coyotes and potential thieves off our property. He’s held “unwanted guests” at bay (with their backs up against a wall in the corner of a room) until given the command to release. He also has attempted to jump through a closed tempered glass storm window to ward off a black bear that ventured too close to our house. Our dogs know their boundaries and they know who’s welcomed, which means that they also know who isn’t. I’ve seen people pull in the driveway, walk up to the porch and turn right back around and take off as soon as our dogs start barking.
B) Why try to risk stealing guns from a house that you know has armed occupants when you know the guy a mile down the street is gun free? Most thieves don’t want a gunfight.
C) I agree, what good is it having a gun locked up in a safe when your home is invaded? “Excuse me Mr. B&E;, would you please have a seat whilst I go procure my unloaded .357 and ammo from my gun safe?”
C) I agree, what good is it having a gun locked up in a safe when your home is invaded? “Excuse me Mr. B&E;, would you please have a seat whilst I go procure my unloaded .357 and ammo from my gun safe?”
Its for when you leave them in the empty house… unless your taking them with… of course…
A) You can case my joint all you want, but you still have to get past the dogs, which are keenly trained to “persuade” intruders to hightail it out of the house. My Chesapeake Bay Retriever has chased large black bears, coyotes and potential thieves off our property. He’s held “unwanted guests” at bay (with their backs up against a wall in the corner of a room) until given the command to release. He also has attempted to jump through a closed tempered glass storm window to ward off a black bear that ventured too close to our house. Our dogs know their boundaries and they know who’s welcomed, which means that they also know who isn’t. I’ve seen people pull in the driveway, walk up to the porch and turn right back around and take off as soon as our dogs start barking.
B) Why try to risk stealing guns from a house that you know has armed occupants when you know the guy a mile down the street is gun free? Most thieves don’t want a gunfight.
C) I agree, what good is it having a gun locked up in a safe when your home is invaded? “Excuse me Mr. B&E;, would you please have a seat whilst I go procure my unloaded .357 and ammo from my gun safe?”
A) No worries, I’ll bring a gun I got from the last place. That’ll get me past the dogs.
B) I want some guns to take with me. If I’m low on guns, I’ll definitely want to pay someone like you a visit. While I’m there, might as well see what else you got.
Murray’s last posting was made between Sunday’s shootings, KUSA reported.
“I’m coming for EVERYONE soon and I WILL be armed to the @#%$ teeth and I WILL shoot to kill. ...God, I can’t wait till I can kill you people. Feel no remorse, no sense of shame, I don’t care if I live or die in the shoot-out. All I want to do is kill and injure as many of you ... as I can especially Christians who are to blame for most of the problems in the world,” the KUSA report quoted from the final posting.
If you’re talking about the straight white North American male ones, right on. Almost makes me want to light up an Iraqi child with gasoline in protest, if it weren’t bad for the ozone
We have our “self-defense” firearm locked in a safe. With a wee one running around and another on the way, we keep everything under lock and key.
My husband’s 9mm resides in a safe that’s small enough to fit in an area near the bed - under the bed, under a nightstand or even in a nighstand drawer. Instead of a standard combination or number lock, it has a handprint with buttons at the tip of each finger so the combination is the order that you depress the buttons. It’s quick and easy to gain access to yet gives us the peace of mind that our 2 year old isn’t going to hurt himself (at least with a firearm).
However, I’m certainly not advocating that everyone be required to keep their firearms in the manner that we keep ours. So sorry, CM, if you want guns, you’ll want to skip our house.
We have our “self-defense” firearm locked in a safe. With a wee one running around and another on the way, we keep everything under lock and key.
My husband’s 9mm resides in a safe that’s small enough to fit in an area near the bed - under the bed, under a nightstand or even in a nighstand drawer. Instead of a standard combination or number lock, it has a handprint with buttons at the tip of each finger so the combination is the order that you depress the buttons. It’s quick and easy to gain access to yet gives us the peace of mind that our 2 year old isn’t going to hurt himself (at least with a firearm).
However, I’m certainly not advocating that everyone be required to keep their firearms in the manner that we keep ours. So sorry, CM, if you want guns, you’ll want to skip our house.
What good is a gun for home defense if it’s locked up in a gun safe?
If your home it doesn’t need to be in the safe.
Why not? Are there still rules with where it can or cannot be? How about in another room, so long as you are home? What if you are asleep? Must it be locked then since it’s not in your control? What if you are in your backyard and no resident is in the house? And on and on.
A) You can case my joint all you want, but you still have to get past the dogs, which are keenly trained to “persuade” intruders to hightail it out of the house. My Chesapeake Bay Retriever has chased large black bears, coyotes and potential thieves off our property. He’s held “unwanted guests” at bay (with their backs up against a wall in the corner of a room) until given the command to release. He also has attempted to jump through a closed tempered glass storm window to ward off a black bear that ventured too close to our house. Our dogs know their boundaries and they know who’s welcomed, which means that they also know who isn’t. I’ve seen people pull in the driveway, walk up to the porch and turn right back around and take off as soon as our dogs start barking.
B) Why try to risk stealing guns from a house that you know has armed occupants when you know the guy a mile down the street is gun free? Most thieves don’t want a gunfight.
C) I agree, what good is it having a gun locked up in a safe when your home is invaded? “Excuse me Mr. B&E;, would you please have a seat whilst I go procure my unloaded .357 and ammo from my gun safe?”
A) No worries, I’ll bring a gun I got from the last place. That’ll get me past the dogs.
B) I want some guns to take with me. If I’m low on guns, I’ll definitely want to pay someone like you a visit. While I’m there, might as well see what else you got.
You’re not going to shoot 3 or 4 trained guard dogs before at least one of them will have your shooting hand in a vice-like grip. On top of that, I think LD listed some stats once that showed in a stressful situation, criminals and non-criminals alike become horrendous shots with anything but a shotgun. But, to another point, most thieves want to get in and get out as quickly as possible. They also choose the path of least resistance. They don’t want to die over someone else’s stuff anymore than the owner does.
Jack MacLean (Secrets of a Superthief) reports the results of a survey of over 300 prison inmates who’d been convicted of burglary or other residential crimes. Three of the questions were about dogs and home security:
Would dogs scare you away?
65% said that dogs of good size and unfriendly persuasion would scare them away
35% said no dog would scare them away.
Based on reassessment of responses, MacLean concludes that over 95% would indeed be scared away.
Of course inmates are going to say that dogs don’t scare them--they don’t want people to have them for fear of running into them while trying to rob someone’s house. Just the presence of a dog is usually enough to deter a thief.
