Just checking here. Are you actually debating with jabba, mikey? ;)

Everyone but you would call it a dramedy. Sorry - sitcom.

Ah well

When you say USA,
I just say hooray!
And if you’re not from here
God’s gonna hunt you down
And give you AIDS.
U. S. A!”

is all I got

Why thank you. We are rather proud of how much we take the piss out of ourselves.

“We”? Theres a difference in poking fun at yourself (which you haven’t) or making fun of others (the center of political satire) which is where the line twixt humor and plain old vanity get a tad thin.  So far you’ve done nothing but boast about yours and the Italians’, saying that if you don’t laugh along you’re n woeful ignoramus. 

A fellow Kraut apprentice of mine loved to praise beer. He’d entertain us through his Monday morning hangovers with bonmots like “I was so drunk I couldn’t find her hole” - that of his girfriend. They didn’t last, ditto his job.

I sat with countless hilarious drinkers after that and came to suspect that “humor” happens for a reason, and its not all that funny. Represssion perhaps?
Basils like me?

Basil is a snobbish, miserly, xenophobic and sexually repressed paranoiac misanthrope who is desperate to belong to a higher social class.

One has to wonder why you left the bolded part of Basil Fawlty’s description out of your above quote. Do you think I/we readily know its unattainable to and therefore doesn’t pertain to me, or does it draw attention to your craving a virtual pat on the back from the Thinkers, i.e. the higher social class here, as it were?

biafra - 23 May 2008 10:16 PM

And here I thought it was more ”slapstick” which is more over-the-top than an ordinary “sitcom”.

Erm… it has elements of slapstick, yes. And this makes it something other than a sitcom because…

There are strong elements of black humour Black Adder. (e.g. the bleakness WWI trenches)

There are strong elements of satire Black Adder. (e.g. the appaling disregard for life of the Tommies)

There are strong elements of absurdism (Baldric’s War Poem which reads merely “BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM” repeatedly)

There are strong elements of stereotypes (The German Pilot by Ade Edminson- you’d like it)

Do any of these elements change the format to something other than situation comedy?

Unless, by the word sitcom youe mean “the sitcoms that I am used to/watch").

If so, you should read up on the self-sealing fallacy. Here you go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

On the other hand, I notice that you went to great pains to find images of the slapstick elements.

Could it be that you have tried to represent these sitcoms as merely slapstick?

Was your sample Mr B, loaded intentionally?

Are perhpaps not woefully ignorant this time but willfully ignorant?

Yep. Po-ta-to, po-tah-to. Same exact diferent thing.

First apolitical self satire, then sitcom, now sitcom like us.

yeah, I’m a pussie needs to butch up. Hey CM, Mikey called me an effiminate male.

Kimpost - 23 May 2008 02:09 PM

Are you actually debating with jabba, mikey? ;)

Why does that sound like a Zen koan? ;)

mikey mikey - 29 May 2008 06:14 AM

Erm… it has elements of slapstick, yes. And this makes it something other than a sitcom because…

There are strong elements of black humour
There are strong elements of satire
There are strong elements of absurdism
There are strong elements of stereotypes
Do any of these elements change the format to something other than situation comedy?

The word “strong” for starters… I already described what I/we consider “sitcoms” to be. There this word in the dictionary, spelled - sorry, spelt - “subtle”

The essence of the situation comedy is that the characters remain in the same situation from episode to episode. The situation is usually that of a family, workplace, or a group of friends. The term was adopted to distinguish the sitcom from other comedy formats: sketch comedy, which generally featured new characters and situations each outing, or the humorous monologue or dialogue, which did not feature characters.
Eventually, sitcoms began to divide themselves into two distinct groups: the domestic comedy, which focused on a family or a married couple in their home, and the workplace comedy, which focused on the employees at a workplace.

In other words, everyday ole Blackadder at work and play. Here’s more evidence Blackadder is a sitcom:

The United Kingdom has produced a wealth of sitcoms, many of which have been exported to other nations or adapted for other countries. The British sitcom tends to rely less on quick-fire jokes and quirky characters, and focuses more on plots, the analysis of the British individual, and exaggerated caricatures of everyday stereotypes. There is also a tendency towards black humor.A frequent theme in British sitcoms is that of people trapped in an unpleasant situation or, more often, in a dysfunctional relationship.

Yep. Thats Blackadder to T.

The Black Adder 1: Set in 1485 at the end of the British Middle Ages
Blackadder II: Is set in England during the reign of Queen Elizabeth I
Blackadder the Third: Blackadder the Third is set in the late 18th and early 19th centuries
Blackadder Goes Forth: This series is set in 1917, on the Western Front in the trenches of the First World War

1775 (US series pilot): This was the pilot for a prospective US Blackadder series. It was shot in 1992 and aired once, but failed to be picked up. Its cast was completely different and it was set in colonial Philadelphia

http://www.newi.ac.uk/rdover/MED-STUD/situatio.htm

“Sitcoms" are popular precisely because of their reliance on certain key conventions and ingredients. They are, the argument continues, generally conservative and safe, endless rehearsals of a common formula

In recent years it has been significant that there has emerged a tendency towards parody or anti-Sit. Com. forms, Cheers, The Young Ones, The New Statesman, all playing with the themes and norms of the traditional Sit. Com form, or Blackadder which burlesques them, (and popular misunderstanding of English history).

I check out the link and am dimly aware that the suffix reads .uk which could mean some dumb limey in the UK actually called ”Blackadder" parody or anti-sitcom, burlesquing the themes of the traditional sitcom.

But dammit, its still a sitcom. All comedy is a form of sitcom, not the other way around. A burlesque, or anti-sitcom, is still a sitcom says you.

It goes without saying that the main function and pleasure of Comedy in general is to make us laugh Finally, it has been suggested that Comedy (and laughter in general) is all about a vicarious experience of loss of ego control and its restoration: Comedy, and laughter, allows us to stand outside our own ‘ego’ and be taken over by events or circumstances outside of our control. One example of this might be to consider how “painful” it can sometimes be to watch John Cleese in Fawlty Towers, endlessly thwarted in his neurotic attempts to control, stay organised and organise others - in laughing at him are we not also laughing, in some way, at aspects of ourselves?

Dammit! Comedy is begat from situation, not the other way around. A burlesque, or anti-sitcom, is still a sitcom says you. And a million other people:

Britain’s Best Sitcom was a poll conducted in 2004 by the BBC to identify the United Kingdom’s best situation comedy. The winner by over 60,000 votes was Only Fools and Horses, not a surprise to the British voting public due to its considerable popularity.

Only Fools and Horses — 342,426 votes

Blackadder — 282,106 votes

On the other hand, I notice that you went to great pains to find images of the slapstick elements.

I Google Images “Blackadder” and grabbed a few pics from first and second pages. That really hurt. 

But, hey, you offered another humbling zinger - a veritable sitcom, there, buddy - totally debunking me.

By your personal definition virtually all “comedy” conveniently equals “situation” comedy cuz you badly need another win on the Internet (don’t forget the adverbs/adjectives):

Greedily stuffing my sweaty face with a greasy hambuger at a dirty McDonalds, I clumsily drop it on my heaving lap, leaving chemically qustionable catsup stains on my woeful crotch. Bwahaha.

I found myself in a “situation” - a typical, everyday one at that. The vacationing Euro at the next table eating his low cal salad shakes his head knowingly.

See, this is whats kinda wrong about a Euro screeching “Death to America”. Sure, they mean only the “bad” ones - the rightwingernuts, the greedy, the ignorant majority, but at casual glance the sign pretty much means not just the broad definition of “America” itself, but the lives of Americans as well.
Ah, how the Euros and Somalis laughed over the “situation” a dead US soldier got himself into, dragged through the streets of Mogadishu in ‘94:

Anyway. Theres also a word in the dictionary called “nuance”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comedy

Plays (theater)
Musical comedy plays
Musical comedy
Opera
Comic opera
Improvisational comedy
Clowns
Buffoon comedy
Clowns
Stand-up comedy
Comedian
Musical comedy
Comedy albums
Comedy club
Stand-up comedy
Impressionist (entertainment)
Alternative comedy
Film
Comedy film
Anarchic comedy film
Gross-out film
Parody film
Romantic comedy film
Screwball comedy film
Slapstick film
Television and radio
Television comedy
Situation comedy
Dramedy
Radio comedy
Lists of comedy television programs
British sitcom
British comedy
Comedy Central
German television comedy

A British sitcom is a situation comedy (sitcom) produced in the United Kingdom. Like sitcoms in most other countries, they tend to be based around a family, workplace or other institution where a group of contrasting characters can be brought together. A common factor is the exploration of social mores, often with a mix of satire or pathos, in contrast to the sometimes uplifting sentiments of many American sitcoms. British comedies are typically produced in series of six episodes each. More recently, the portmanteau term “Britcom” has been used by American commentators to distinguish the British idiom of situation comedy from its other (particularly American) counterparts.

Still a sitcom.

So let’s have un update.

One page ago…
http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/forums/viewthread/3493/P0/

Where are the apolitcal Euro comedy shows that poke fun at their own kind?

Biafra asked.
When answered, he countered…

Jeeves and Wooster
Mr. Bean
Fawlty Towers
Absolutely Fabulous
Blackadder
None of these are anywhere near what we Amis lazily call “sitcoms”

And yet when informed that they were so he points out…

The British sitcom tends to rely less on quick-fire jokes and quirky characters, and focuses more on plots, the analysis of the British individual, and exaggerated caricatures of everyday stereotypes. There is also a tendency towards black humor.A frequent theme in British sitcoms is that of people trapped in an unpleasant situation or, more often, in a dysfunctional relationship.

so rather than admit that Europe does indeed have political humour that poke fun of themselves and rather than admit that a sitcom is indeed a sitcom Biafra has decided to distinguish British sitcoms from American sitcoms by the very fact that it is , erm, British. British sitcom is not a True Sitcom in the way Biafra intened and therefore is not a sitcom at all, ergo he was correct to ask (rhetorically) his first question:

Where are the apolitcal Euro comedy shows that poke fun at their own kind?

Now, Biafra old chum; can you spot the non-sequiter?

“Sitcoms" are popular precisely because of their reliance on certain key conventions and ingredients. They are, the argument continues, generally conservative and safe, endless rehearsals of a common formula

You highlighted that last part. Do you think “endless of a common formula” are a good thing?

When the formula is over-used it is reinvented, and in comedy, very often the formula itself becomes the target of the satire. Leading to, as you say the anti-sitcom. Yes a reworking of the sitcom. Just because somebody uses the suffix “anti” does not mean very much. There is also the term New Sitcom. You mentioned Seinfeld earlier. That too has been decribed as the anti-sitcom.

That’s not the only American sitcom to be described as such. Look again.

In recent years it has been significant that there has emerged a tendency towards parody or anti-Sit. Com. forms, Cheers, The Young Ones, The New Statesman, all playing with the themes and norms of the traditional Sit. Com form, or Blackadder which burlesques them, (and popular misunderstanding of English history).

And yet

But dammit, its still a sitcom. All comedy is a form of sitcom, not the other way around. A burlesque, or anti-sitcom, is still a sitcom says you.

Let me rework an old story called No True Scotsman.

Argument: “No Sitcom puts black humour in its comedy.”
Reply: “But Blackadder, which is a Sitcom, likes black humour with its comedy.”
Rebuttal: “Yeah, but no true Sitcom puts black humour in its comedy.”

But back to your first question

Where are the apolitcal Euro comedy shows that poke fun at their own kind?

Well right here in what you quoted.

It goes without saying that the main function and pleasure of Comedy in general is to make us laugh Finally, it has been suggested that Comedy (and laughter in general) is all about a vicarious experience of loss of ego control and its restoration: Comedy, and laughter, allows us to stand outside our own ‘ego’ and be taken over by events or circumstances outside of our control. One example of this might be to consider how “painful” it can sometimes be to watch John Cleese in Fawlty Towers, endlessly thwarted in his neurotic attempts to control, stay organised and organise others - in laughing at him are we not also laughing, in some way, at aspects of ourselves?

rather than admit that Europe does indeed have political humour that poke fun of themselves and rather than admit that a sitcom is indeed a sitcom Biafra has decided to distinguish British sitcoms from American sitcoms by the very fact that it is , erm, British.

A Brit wrote that, and was able to distinguish a difference between the two, why can’t you?

What I wrote long ago and many times over is that “Euros” like to make fun of others and their politics even more.

“Sitcoms" are popular precisely because of their reliance on certain key conventions and ingredients. They are, the argument continues, generally conservative and safe, endless rehearsals of a common formula

You highlighted that last part. Do you think “endless of a common formula” are a good thing?

I wrote that our sitcoms are funny for a while but inevitably run their course due to endless repitition. Blackadder got tired, the Mr. Bean sitcom-movie wasn’t a huge hit. I wrote that one-hit Tiny Tim’s anti-song “Tip-toe thru the Tulips” wasn’t funny anymore. In the real world “Stupid Ami, you don’t even know the US has 52 states. Haha!” is as boring and isipid as yer ordinary everyday “Euro” comes.

There is also the term New Sitcom. You mentioned Seinfeld earlier. That too has been decribed as the anti-sitcom.

By whom? Americans? It was described here as “the show about nothing”. Kramer was the only manic guy bouncing around on set so I supopose his humor must be described as “sitcom”.

Where are the apolitical Euro comedy shows that poke fun at their own kind?

Well right here in what you quoted.

It goes without saying that the main function and pleasure of Comedy in general is to make us laugh Finally, it has been suggested that Comedy (and laughter in general) is all about a vicarious experience of loss of ego control and its restoration: Comedy, and laughter, allows us to stand outside our own ‘ego’ and be taken over by events or circumstances outside of our control. One example of this might be to consider how “painful” it can sometimes be to watch John Cleese in Fawlty Towers, endlessly thwarted in his neurotic attempts to control, stay organised and organise others - in laughing at him are we not also laughing, in some way, at aspects of ourselves?

Funny I thought I wrote ”Euro” and “shows”. 

(Unlike yer average Kraut does US) I Wiki “Europe” and find it has 27 member states. The UK appears to be one of them. Is by that measure “Fawlty Towers” a Brit sitcom or a European one? “Shows” is plural. Do you watch all them politcal Latvian sitcoms, too, fully understanding their humor?

I’ve also mentioned countless times over that my whole schtick - or, better: sitcom - here at Moorewatch is acting like and aping yer ordinary German - i.e. Euro - talking about America and its 52 states, and gleefully deriding anyone who dares have a different opinion than mine.

I mention my car has a manual transmission and the German will immediately (some would say “desperately") find fault with that. Wasteful. Slow. I drink my beer chilled, so the beer-at-room-temp connoisseur German calls me uncultured, even though my normal room temp in Texas would be 90 fahrenheit if i didn’t turn on the AC. Stupid me, didn’t I know that AC causes global warming? Nobody does that, not even Africans, who, by the way, are suffering from my global warming! Do they even drink beer? Would they crank the AC if they could afford any? Details, schmetails.
We know whose fault thier poverty is.

I go into detail, the German counters with sweeping statements (see “sitcom"). I make broad generilisations the Kraut gets all meticulous. All the while the German gets more and more incredulous over everyones stupidity, even over that of his fellow Euro. Euro in the form of currency, on the other hand…

Funny thing is all you have to do is identify yourself as a Euro and you may be deemed “dumb” but at least you’re one of “them”. Good people.

Mikey

Yeah me too. Cos instead of mentioning Mozart, Strauss, Haydn, Doppler, Wittgenstien, Porsche, or Kafka, they’re usually talking some crazy killler.
Either that or they’re talking about Arnie.
Still, nice to know we all live in countries utterly devoid of crazies, eh? Unlike those poor sausage eaters.
Cue Biafraesque Krautbashing now

...much less mentioning all them lil things like slapstick, farce, standup.... 

ossi

Oh yes some austrians are really weird, strange and perverted.
the Fritzl and Kampusch story shows it.
but if I watch the news what happened in the name of religious freedom
in Texas I feel quite well in the austrian cellarstate.
by the way the lyrics of the EAV are critical and cynical, but only rightwingernuts
cant understand their sense of humor.

EAV are critical and cynical over everything but themselves and their inbred fanbase.

But, ah, details, schmetails.  Its all just sitcom. </euro>

Together the global village of enlightened Thinkers sings in unison. This sitcom says it all. Lets dacee

“When you say USA,
I just say hooray!
And if you’re not from here
God’s gonna hunt you down
And give you AIDS.
U. S. A!”

The “Schuhplattler” is said to be the oldest surviving European dance, going back to Neolithic times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUmUaF7yusg

Quick Preview Of BGS Schuhplattler On Britain’s Got Talent

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQ39_2IFx5Y

Lemme put this another way: Assuming you were indeed born in 1971 and thus 7 years my junior, I still don’t equate “age = wisdom” any more than I belive in “non-American = smarter”.

I was three years younger than you are now when I decided put the latest of my many past lives on hold to give the then-burgeoning telco industry a try, cold turkey.  After a year at it became evident once egain that the more I learned about it all the less I actually knew. Nobody knows everything about everything.

And I’ve come to grade my teachers, instructors, peers, juniors and seniors based on the following critieria:

A good educator gets one excited about learning, is encouraging, and objective to all and about everything. My last junior high teacher in the US was a Dutch immigrant with man’s face but a body like a woman’s, but us teens liked him. He would take time at the end of the school day to read to us classical literature, but since I had already read that particular story (and had the best grades), he let me read me his copy of Tolkien’s “The Hobbit” during that time.

Bad educators on the other hand, told me to always say, never deviate from: “I had forgotten my homework” in English class.  A geography teacher told me the US has 52 states. A history teacher let slip that “the Amis got their asses kicked in Vietnam”. I got demerits for penmanship from all of them, writing sloppily with my left-handed fountain pen, and doodling outside my notebook margins.

And at the 11th grade “oral” history where I was supposed to - what else - discuss Hitler and the 3rd Reich, One of the two “examiners” on hand noticed my birth location on my ID sheet and instead started asking me about the US government, with his colleagues smiling consent.

I told him I didn’t know much about US history as we didn’t have history class there until the 8th grade, and that I’d moved to Germany after the 7th. He remarked that I should still know some history about the US, as everyone else they’d quizzed before me had. Thankfully I wasn’t asked the correct number of US states, but I still wound up with a “5” (out of 6 grades; “1” being the best grade) on my Realschule graduation report card. Art and English were my only strengths; good enough to secure that painter’s apprenticeship even before I so woefully botched the finals.

But when I offered wholly unsolicited sketches and diagrams to provide my trade school projects with added visuals I was again admonished that I was not a trained professional artist and therefore could not draw according to the laws that be.

I can’t blame a recruiter or prospective telco employer for going by the rules and not hiring me based on my lack of certificates and creds, but he doesn’t have to be snide about it either.

You say you’re an educator. And a really smart one at that; smarter than a whole bunch of people. I’m one of those woeful ignorants based on your personal observation of me via the Internet. I should be impressed and humbled, but I’m not.

Do you apply the same method when teaching? Do you make it clear to your students “I have the rather doubtful ‘pleasure’ of trying to make you cretins less dumb”?

But let me bail you again with this video of a US student fighting with a US teacher. Race is asolutely no issue here ; its solely about the US lack of culture. 

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/05/30/sotvo.ga.teacher.student.fight.wsb

Cuz in overseas smart pupils can’t help but love their devoted teachers so much they propose marriage to them in floweriest prose during class.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=-NkmxTJojyA&feature;=related

Bush call to college grads: Be responsible

GREENVILLE, S.C. (AP) — President Bush, ignoring faculty members who stood in silent protest of his commencement speech, admitted Saturday that when he left college, thinking about how to be a “model citizen” was the furthest thing from his mind.

Yet that was the goal the president set for the 2008 graduating class of Furman University.

“As you move ahead in life, you will find temptations and distractions that can take you off course,” Bush said. “You might also find that years may pass before you learn some important truths: That who you are is more important than what you have. And that you have responsibilities to your fellow citizens, your country, your family, and yourself.”

Scores of Bush supporters lined his motorcade route and the crowd gave Bush a warm welcome as he strode into the university stadium for the outdoor commencement ceremony. But about 15 members of the faculty stood in silent protest during the president’s speech. They wore white T-shirts emblazoned with “We Object” to show their opposition to Bush’s policies on the Iraq war, global warming and other issues.

More than 200 Furman professors and students signed a statement criticizing Bush administration policies and the Iraq war.

“Under ordinary circumstances, it would be an honor for Furman University to be visited by the president of the United States,” the statement said. “However, these are not ordinary circumstances.”

The statement said the Iraq war had “severely damaged our government’s ethical and moral credibility at home and abroad.”

Off the top of your head, whancha guess the age and look of the teachers that protested

http://www.furman.edu/bushvisit/petition.htm