On behalf of Moore fans, I’d like to say that sending you hate emails or calling for your wife’s death is completely ridiculous and unjustified. 

I disagree with how you’ve handled this manner, but I would sincerely hope people would refrain from sending you death threats.

It’s more than Michael Moore’s fanbase that have a problem with the way you’ve acted, it’s normal, rational people too. Yes there will be idiots who call you names and worse, and I hope that stops, but people are offended by the way you reacted to a donation. Not everything is a conspiracy and most people have compassionate sides to then. Here’s some advice, assume good faith in people’s actions. It’s surprising how far losing the hostility can go these days. You don’t have to take my advice, but this automatic hostility can lead to things like this happening. Good day to you.

Posted by UsernameC on 05/19 at 02:22 PM

It’s more than Michael Moore’s fanbase that have a problem with the way you’ve acted, it’s normal, rational people too. Yes there will be idiots who call you names and worse, and I hope that stops, but people are offended by the way you reacted to a donation. Not everything is a conspiracy and most people have compassionate sides to then. Here’s some advice, assume good faith in people’s actions. It’s surprising how far losing the hostility can go these days. You don’t have to take my advice, but this automatic hostility can lead to things like this happening. Good day to you.

Here’s one normal, rational person who knows exactly why JimK might initially mistrust Moore’s motives.  I can understand having good faith in the actions of strangers (although that can get you into a lot of trouble too), but Moore is no stranger to JimK.  Jim is admitting that this could have been something other than what it first appeared.  That doesn’t seem to be worth much to people who agree with Moore.  Talk about good faith…

I’m also wondering what brought people who are otherwise not invested in Moore (either way) to this site just because they read it in one of only a few media outlets (Google News had 20 citations)?  I’ve never been motivated to join a site and post comments about a feud between two people I didn’t care about, and am just wondering what moves others to do so.

but people are offended by the way you reacted to a donation. Not everything is a conspiracy and most people have compassionate sides to then. Here’s some advice, assume good faith in people’s actions.

How did jimk react badly to the donation?  Also how should one react to a person who has threatened to sue him in the past?

hebo

It’s more than Michael Moore’s fanbase that have a problem with the way you’ve acted, it’s normal, rational people too.

I call bullshit.

Sethery

I’ve never been motivated to join a site and post comments about a feud between two people I didn’t care about, and am just wondering what moves others to do so.

I sincerely doubt that there’s much of that going on here. If some new member is bashing JimK and says they’re not a Moore fan or don’t care about Moore or whatever, there is a 99% chance they are lying.

I’m not a Michael Moore fan at all; I found out about your website through Digg with all this fiasco, and I just wanted to say one thing. For you to take $12,000 anonymously to care for your sick wife and then accuse the donor of trying to buy your silence because you disagree with his stances is ridiculous. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being.

I have to say that your conspiracy theories are even more delusional than the world trade center theories.

And I have to say it’s nice of you to eliminate any possibility of you being treated seriously in the first sentence you post on the site. It saves a lot of time.

I’m not a Michael Moore fan at all;

But you ARE a liar.

Sethery - to answer your question - the topic was on the top page of Digg - guaranteed a massive audience, and it was certainly an eye-catching story. Signing up isn’t a big hassle. I think it’s clear that to all but the three Defenders of the Site here, JimK came off looking very bad from this. Even in this post, he’s trying to label anyone who criticises him as a rabid, insult-spewing hate-monger, when we can clearly see from comments on previous posts that the bulk of public responses are quite measured.
Like Hebo, I can say it’s despicable if anyone is sending vitriolic messages, but that’s sadly part of Internet existence these days and hardly limited to Michael Moore fans.

I think

I doubt it.

I am trusting that the “normal, rational” people who have so much of a problem with this did not read the first post on this topic (beating someone to the punch), otherwise there’s a shocking lack of reading comprehension going on around here. For anyone who can’t be bothered to go back and read it:

I was just warned by someone in the know that Moore is about to drop the hammer on me.

Perhaps I’m in the minority here, but to me, when you’re warned that someone who gave you an anonymous gift is planning to “drop the hammer” on you, that doesn’t indicate 100% pure and good intentions on their part. Some suspicion was certainly warranted.

Then he calls after you say on your blog that it make everything all betterif he would personally sing you a lullaby, and yet you act surprised that he actually made that call. Then you make a complete turnaround and say you were grateful and appreciative all along, despite your continuing tirade against him

As jim said he was always grateful for the money.  That’s not a complete turnaround.  Of course for you to understand that it would require properly firing synapses in your brain.

Why wouldn’t jimk be surprised at moore calling him?  Someone who had threatened to sue him in the past?  Someone who makes certain to never even mention his detractors and point out the lies half truths and deceptions in his movies.  Wouldn’t you be surprised?

Of course you probably think jimk is wishing death on moore.

Man just reading the trackback here shows the delusion and manipulation and inability of people who read things.  They never like to post that jimk was grateful for the money.  Only that because of it jimk is not some fan worshipping at the feet of moore and has not changed his stance in confronting deceptions in moore’s works.

How dare you seek out the facts behind the bullshit jim!  A pox on you and your family!

Interesting to read the comments here from Rann Aridorn considering this post is about personal attacks.

What other info is this JimK spreading other than conspiracy theories? He thinks everything must have some evil intent behind it. He can’t accept reality.

Hm. You seem to be unable to see anything in these posts but what you want to see. Clear delusional psychopathy and loss of connection with reality.

Interesting to read the comments here from Rann Aridorn considering this post is about personal attacks.

And? Your point being? Do you think that you’re not being insulting or using personal attacks just because you’re not mailing “U GO DIE NOW!!!!111!”? Don’t make it as if you’re not attacking him just because you’re not using threats or bad words. You’re purposefully misinterpreting the meaning of his posts and using disdainful phrases like “all three defenders of the sites”. You’re not any different than any of the rest of the Moore fans, you’re just less vitriolic.

When I searched Digg for “moorewatch” I only got three hits.  The max number of “Diggs” among those three was 5.  When I look at the front page of Digg.com, the top stories have hundreds, sometimes thousands, of “Diggs”.  The last of the “Top in 24 Hours” has 134 “Diggs”.  Now, I’m not a Digg regular, but that this would be on the front page is a little odd for “user driven content”.

When looking at the three hits, two of them linked here, and only one of them was impartial in the least.  One described Jim as having an “unhealthy obsession”, and the other called him a “dick” in the headline.  From what I’ve seen just today of Digg, if you’re getting your “news” from there you’re not being served well.

Daniel

I have to say that your conspiracy theories are even more delusional than the world trade center theories.

What conspiracy theory would that be? Jim got wind that Moore was going to come out and say he was the anonymous donator. Knowing how Moore operates, he put the story on his website first. An now it has been confirmed Moore was the donor, so how is it a conspiracy theory?

You received an ANONYMOUS donation. IT could have remained anonymous, and you could have gone on with your life. But instead you find out that it was Moore and you devolve further into chronic paranoia about its intents.. AND YET YOU KEEP THE MONEY!

Oh please...it was someone from Moore’s side that leaked it to the press (probably on Moore’s say). As stated before, Jim was just beating him to the punch. The story was going to press. Do you honestly think that Moore would not have broadcast this if Jim did not beat him to the punch?

Then he calls after you say on your blog that it make everything all betterif he would personally sing you a lullaby, and yet you act surprised that he actually made that call. Then you make a complete turnaround and say you were grateful and appreciative all along, despite your continuing tirade against him.

Did you even read the posts that Jim posted? He was appricciative for the loan, according to what I read. He just stated that he was not going to stop exposing the lies Moore has in his movies. You seem to want Jim to just accept the money and start agreeing with Moore. In other words, you want Jim to sell out, is what is seems you want.

And as for Moore calling him...did it ever occur to you that Moore did that because Jim got wind of what Moore was going to do? Again, knowing Moore’s tactics, if Jim did not post first, I think Moore would have tried to humiliate him with this. I think if Jim did not keep the records he did, I think Moore would have just stated he gave money to Jim and not even mention it was anonymous...that he just gave Jime the money and he accepted it.

Do you ever wonder whether something might be wrong with you? Maybe everyone ISN’T out to get you, maybe someone just wants to help. Accept the help. Take the money. Get some medical treatment for yourself.

You act like Jim is paranoid of Moore and that he looks behind himself where ever he goes to make sure Moore is not there. I do not think that is the case.

I posted this on another thread, but I thought I would post it here as well.  I would like to extend a hearty “WELCOME’ to all of the new members and readers of this site that have popped up in the last couple of days.  I am not the owner of this site, but I have been a regular reader for some time now, and I think you will find it informative and educational.  I strongly encourage you to browse the archives, as there is a ton of good information and discussion there.  I especially encourage all Moore fans to check out the posts in the “F911 Lies” category.  I think you will find it very eye opening.

Now, I figure that you probably came here as a result of recent media attention placed upon this site by virtue of actions taken by Michael Moore and his associates.  That is good, as now, hopefully, you will take a look at a different perspective upon his work, past and present.

Enjoy.  :)

So, he really did use it for the movie. And as “a funny bit”, too.

Looks like all that “noble” bullshit can be put to rest, now. It was just to make himself look good and do a snide little “Look how benevolent I am, even to the heathens” bit of sneering.

Posted by Red_Elephant on 05/19 at 03:32 PM
I haven’t heard this news on the site yet, so I thought I’d fill some people who haven’t heard in…
This is from the Cinematical review of the screening at Cannes --

More explains in the film how the head of anti-Moore website www.Moorewatch.com posted that he’d have to stop running the site due to a financial crisis brought on by his wife’s illness. Moore then tells how he anonymously sent a check for the cost of the wife’s treatment—$12,000. It’s a funny bit—and, to anyone who can parse a sentence, not actually ‘anonymous’ at all, anymore.

Ta da

Man, if that really is in the movie will Moore’s fans (at least the ones who came here) admit that it wasn’t pure generosity, and that JimK was rightly suspicious?  Please, for God’s sake will you have a little integrity?

JimK

But...and this is the funny part - over 600 different Moore fans have emailed me and called me everything from ingrate to “fucking scumbag neocon who should die.”

Well, that’s wrong of them. What jackasses. You are dealing with the internet crowd who will speak their minds in the most disrespectful way possible, because there is no consequence for it.

Just shrug it off. There’s no dealing with idiots, who would rather not represent themselves with intelligence… no matter what political allegiance they come from.

This is Moore’s fanbase?

Actually, I think you are dealing with people coming in from Digg.

Zinger

I posted this on another thread, but I thought I would post it here as well.  I would like to extend a hearty “WELCOME’ to all of the new members and readers of this site that have popped up in the last couple of days.

I’m not a new member. In fact, I used to be a member under a different pseudonym that was banned ungraciously from the site (misleadingly redirecting to an error page) for simply stating opposing opinions (no, I was not being abusive and stupid, as you might immediately assume. Just simply defending my opinions).

Just thought I might highlight this site’s not-so-clean track record of censorship.

Actually, I think you are dealing with people coming in from Digg.

Already debunked that from earlier in the thread.

I’m not a new member. In fact, I used to be a member under a different pseudonym that was banned ungraciously from the site (misleadingly redirecting to an error page) for simply stating opposing opinions (no, I was not being abusive and stupid, as you might immediately assume. Just simply defending my opinions).

Just thought I might highlight this site’s not-so-clean track record of censorship.

Are you sure you were banned? Are you sure it wasn’t just AN ERROR PAGE? And considering that every single person ever banned from this site had to work really, really hard at it, I find your claims to most likely be shenanigans.

I suspect that no matter where they’re coming from (Digg, MM, DK, etc.) they are very likely Moore fans if they’re so hostile to JimK.  It wouldn’t make sense for someone who didn’t care about either person to read the Digg articles that I found and then write “DIE NEOCON DIE” e-mails to JimK.  That’s a freaking bored mentality.

So, if I’m not mistaken and they are Moore fans, and JimK is not greatly exaggerating about the number of e-mails he’s received, then the Moore fanbase is very poorly reflected indeed.  Six hundred flaming e-mails versus a dozen or so new commenters, many of whom are just mocking JimK for receiving money from Moore and not giving it back when it’s revealed a year later, as if he just had $12k sitting around.  The Moore fans I’m mostly likely to respect in this situation are those who just kept quiet.

Jellygraph, what was your prior handle?  I remember only a few bannings, but they were mostly deserved.  Considering that this site is Jim’s private enterprise, any censorship I’ve seen here is nothing compared to some of the left-wing sites I’ve visited.

Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit. Bullshit.

This in not a situation in which Moore was a good guy and gave Jim money because his heart went out to him and his problems. This is all about him and his movie. Jim is being made to look ungrateful and like an asshole is all part of the joke. Why else would Moore call and say that he sent Jim the money right after he posted about it on your website?

This has been about Moore proving to the public that he is better than you from the start. Your wife has health problems and his new movie is about health care. It’s all connected and his motivations have been obvious from the start. I can’t understand why anyone is questioning Moore’s intentions now when he is still obviously playing a game.

Jim was put in a damned if he did, damned if he didn’t situation by Moore. This way, this whole situation can play out the way he wants it to. The media getting the scoop on Moore being Jims guardian angel, and Moore calling to leave a message and reveal that he was the anonymous source was all part of the plan. If Moore were really a heart-felt angel, he would have remained anonymous instead of soaking up the media hype just before his new movie comes out.

I sincerely doubt that Moore found out about the health problems and made a plan to help without benefiting himself somehow in the process. To me, this was the slickest way to mess with your enemies and make it appear that you are a good guy at the same time via the media.

So...WHY doesn’t JimK just return the money?

Tell you what. I’ll agree with you that he should give the money back, IF, within two hours, you can produce an image of yourself holding $12,000 cash that you’ll donate to a charity that everyone at the site here can decide on. We’ll be sure to make it something nonpolitical, like cancer research or something.

If you have $12,000 sitting around to “throw away”, maybe we can discuss the validity of your demand.

Except I’m betting you’re just another Mooreon talking big. Wanna prove me wrong, numnuts?

This whole debate boils down to something very simple and easy to understand (for most). Had this donation remained and intended to remain anonymous by a donor with only the purest intentions, then regardless of who it came from, this would had never become an issue. However, let’s look at the facts: Michael Moore sent an anonymous donation to the owner of moorewatch. Controversy. Moore intended to “out” himself as the donor. Controversy. Further, Moore intended to do so at the time of his release of Sicko. Controversy. Is it so hard to understand that Moore tricked JimK solely for the purposes of exposure and put him in this situation with the intension of making him look like an asshole? Sure, JimK didn’t need to accept anything, but that certainly does not entitle or justify Moore to unwillingly thrust JimK into the limelight. Say what you want, but JimK and his innocent wife were clearly exploited so Moore could profit off the controversy. It was an ill-intentioned and insincere move. And I bet you anything that if JimK knew with athority that this donation was from Moore or that this would happen, it would not have been accepted so readily, if at all. As such, please don’t send hatemail to JimK or which anything upon him or his family; it simply wasn’t warranted.

Ascii, fuck you.

Y’know, Ascii, it would serve you right if he sent all 600 right to your inbox. But you, like your lardy overlord, are just grandstanding. You know that what you ask is a ridiculous task that is completely unnecessary to prove what he’s saying, you just want to “make a point”.

Tell us, genius, how exactly do you suggest he “produce” all these emails? Especially to your satisfaction so that you don’t follow up with “Oh you just typed those yourself”?

Ascii,

Considering that you registered just yesterday, just to mock JimK for what’s basically a non-issue compared to the actual health-care debate, you won’t be suprised if nobody here thinks they have anything to prove to you, will you?

Hi Jim,

As someone who appreciates Michael Moore’s work and thinks he plays a very important role in American society, I think it’s terrible that people are being so vicious in their description of you and your reaction to the ‘anonymous’ donation.

Any intelligent person, whether they agree with Mr. Moore’s ideology or not, can see that he usually has an agenda of some sort.  I think you had every right to be suspicious, and I don’t find your reaction to be entirely ungrateful.

I wanted to note though, that as a Canadian I find the greatest tragedy in this ordeal is that you had to pay $12,000 in premiums at all.  I don’t think most Americans realize that this concept is completely foreign and incredible to us!  I’ve read a few comments regarding the benevolence of Corporations who graciously cover a large part of the premiums, allowing employees to gain health coverage for a mere $100 per month.

This is what I get for health care: I don’t pay anything when I go to visit a doctor, surgeon, or the Emergency room.  Vision and Dental is partially subsidized, but I’m fortunate enough to work for an employer who pays for the part that isn’t.  My prescription drugs, massage therapy, chiropractor, acupuncture, etc, are all also covered by my employer.  I don’t pay a cent, and this is not uncommon up here.

I read yesterday that the American debt load is up to $400K per household, and unfortunately it would seem you have very little to show for it as a nation.

Be well,

-M

What does this have to to with the “validity of my demand” as you call it?

You speak as if everyone just has $12,000 to throw around. Like Jim could have it in Moore’s hands by sundown if he cared to. You were the one making producing $12,000 and handing it over seem trivial. And when called upon to literally put your money where your mouth is, your reply is to retreat to the same Mooreon mewling you were already doing.

You’ve used 15 minutes of your two hours as of the time you posted that message. Perhaps you could solicit the money from your fellow Moore fans, if you’re interested in retaining your credibility. I think they’d all find a few thou a small price to pay for Moore to have the high ground, wouldn’t you?

I just wanted to pop in and say thank you to those who are arguing on my behalf.  You know I appreciate that.

Whoever said I was damned if I did and damned if I didn’t was right.  Both times.  Damned if I took it - as we can see.  Damned if I didn’t as the last year would have been immeasurably harder to get through.  Damned if I said anything - as we can see.  And I know I would have been damned if I didn’t reveal it before anyone else, and called a liar, sneaky, etc.

I’ve been through much, much worse than a few hundred Moore fans calling me names.  Feel free to pile it on, Moore-ons.  You couldn’t scratch my skin if it were made of gossamer.  You don’t have that power.

Posted by MajoritySpeaker on 05/19 at 04:26 PM
...
I can guarantee that if this were my site, I’d set up a payment plan to get this Moore monkey off my back, either that, or I’d shut this site down, period.

That’s your plan?!?!  Pay it back or shut down?  If Moore could get each critic to shut down for $12k, there wouldn’t be any left, and Moore still wouldn’t notice the difference in his bank account.

Posted by mphetameme on 05/19 at 04:21 PM
Hi Jim,

...
This is what I get for health care: I don’t pay anything when I go to visit a doctor, surgeon, or the Emergency room.  Vision and Dental is partially subsidized, but I’m fortunate enough to work for an employer who pays for the part that isn’t.  My prescription drugs, massage therapy, chiropractor, acupuncture, etc, are all also covered by my employer.  I don’t pay a cent, and this is not uncommon up here.

Hi M, I’d dare say you’re the first critic of JimK who actually presented something coherent to argue about.  Thanks for coming.

Where I’d disagree with you is your statement that you don’t pay a cent.  All of your healthcare costs are paid by taxes, and in the U.S., at least, we consider taxes to be a cost to society.  Some of those costs are clearly worth it, but when a new cost is proposed for a new program, we really should go through a long process of figuring out whether we think it’s worth it.  We also have to figure out what we’re going to lose by handing what has been a personal responsibility over to the government.  It’s never a freebie.  We tend to lose choices, quality, and accountability when the government assumes responsibility, and there are very few exceptions to that.

Our system certainly isn’t perfect, but it’s difficult to look around with an open mind and proclaim that, as a whole, it sucks.  Cynics pull it off easily, as do people who give more weight to anecdotes than statistics.

I read yesterday that the American debt load is up to $400K per household, and unfortunately it would seem you have very little to show for it as a nation.

I hadn’t heard that, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it included mortgage-realted debt and student loans.  Financial analysts consider those “good debt”, because you generally pay lower interest rates than you can get on investments.  We do have a debt problem for sure, but I don’t think $400k per household is representative of the problem.

this isn’t about me.

You can’t claim others have no credibility when you have none of your own.

Your first hour is gone. You have one hour left to prove yourself or you’ll eternally lose face and be haunted by this.

So let me get this straight:

1. Someone “anonymously” offers to give JimK $12,000 to help him with his medical expenses, something JimK is have real trouble with at the time.

2. Since it was an anonymous gift, JimK takes the appropriate precaution of finding out if the money was legit.  He also discloses on his site, which is very critical of Michael Moore, that he suspects Michael may be behind it.  The assumption is a wholly valid one, since Michael Moore is always looking for ways to discredit his detractors, and something like this could easily be such an instance.  He expresses his ambivalence about taking the money, but ultimately takes it given the circumstances (the donor chooses to, at the time, remain anonymous, not professing any ideology or motive for donating other than giving the money, especially any ideology or motives that would immediately make JimK reject the money as he has stated before, and after all, JimK does need the money).  JimK then states that in the case the money is from Michael Moore, it is for “services rendered,” knowing full well that Michael Moore would be likely to use this instance to further his own ambition, rather than genuinely help out a person in need with no strings attached and no ulterior motive.

3.  Time passes, and JimK spends the money.

4.  Sicko comes close to its release date, and Michael’s PR machine goes into action, promoting the movie agressively, with a premiere at Cannes no less.

5.  The NY Daily News says that Michael is behind the anonymous donation, and JimK discloses that story here.

6.  Michael then calls JimK soon afterward.  Isn’t it interesting that he chooses to do so now?

7.  JimK expresses his sincere thanks to Michael for the money.

8.  It turns out Michael Moore IS behind the anonymous donation, and it seems that he makes clear and explicit mention of this in his new movie, proving that, yes, he didn’t donate the money to help out JimK, but to create a incident that he could use against JimK.

9.  Legions of Moore’s loyal fans swarm this website and call JimK ungrateful, selfish, mean-spirited, and worse (comparing him to a Sonderkommando in a Nazi concentration camp is especially low).  Some can’t even do so in readable English.  Some also demand that if JimK is to maintain any sort of credibility, he should pay the money back to Moore, despite the fact that it has been shown Michael Moore did not give the money altruistically to JimK, but rather to further his own goals in discrediting this website.  Not only that, but unlike Michael Moore, who is a multi-multi-millionaire, JimK is most definitely not rich, and so paying him back instantly is not exactly a doable thing.

After all of this, JimK is supposed to be the bad guy?  Moore-defenders, shame on you.  SHAME ON YOU.

Majority: IF I HAD $12,000 I WOULD TRY TO SEND IT BACK.  TODAY.

If he wouldn’t take it, I would send it to Soldier’s Angels.

I DON’T HAVE IT. Does that answer your smart-assed question yet?

You are setting standards by which you would find Jim credible. If he does not adhere to these standards, he has lost credibility and must shut down his site.

I am setting standards by which I will find you credible. If you do not adhere to those standards, you have lost credibility and must stop posting.

It’s just too bad if mine are stricter than yours.

Forty minutes.

MajoritySpeaker,

Since Michael Moore won’t be taking the joke back, I don’t see the value of giving up the $12,000.  You’re almost demanding that JimK ask for it in both ends instead of just the one.

My plan?  I probably would have let Moore make his play first, and then made the case that an anonymous donation is usually out of generosity and that I had received the donation with that in my heart.  To surrender the anonymity in the way that he did, however, makes it clearly publicity rather than generosity.  I’d probably make the case that I’d rather not have had the money at this cost, but that I’m unable to pay it back at this time.  I would NOT ask my readers to pay back Moore on my behalf.  That only gives him something more to publicize.

Fifty bucks a month, for 20 years?  Would you let him off the hook as soon as he started, or not until he finished?

Majority: IF I HAD $12,000 I WOULD TRY TO SEND IT BACK.  TODAY.

You shouldn’t. Like Sethery said, it’s not as if he’d take his jibe at you out of the movie. And he’d never breathe a word to anyone that you’d paid him back, and the Mooreons would eventually deny you’d done so at all, claiming you lied and kept it all. It would benefit you nothing and him everything.

I don’t see why you consider it integrity to be a martyr, in the non-biblical sense.

MajoritySpeaker:

I’m sorry, but integrity is entirely dependent on the circumstances.  If Moore had given this money to Jim out of the kindness of his own heart, and Jim had given Michael attitude for doing so, returning the money would indeed be a sign of integrity.

That, however, is NOT what happened.  Michael obviously gave Jim this money to him anonymously to use it against him.  The issue of integrity concerns Michael Moore, not Jim.  He gave Jim this money at a desperate point in Jim’s life, when he knew Jim would not be able to refuse it, and then some time later, discloses the fact that he gave Jim this money in his new movie.  Why?  To discredit Jim and his website.  Simple as that.  Otherwise, why did Michael put this incident in his film?  Jim simply took it out of necessity, and would not have had he known the money came from Michael in an attempt to use it in his film.  Jim has stated as much before.  Since the donation remained anonymous, however (until now that is, when Michael’s film is coming out), Jim took it.

In the end, Michael used Jim for his own purposes, not to help out another human being.  Hence, the money is essentially a payment for services rendered.  There’s no need to give the money back to Michael, because Michael didn’t donate it out of the good of his heart.  He gave it to use in his film.

Is that clear now?

I’m sorry, MajoritySpeaker can’t post anymore. His time’s up and his credibility’s shot, he had to leave.

I’m with you Firebrand; I don’t see what’s so hard to understand: Mike gave JimK the money with the intention of exploiting him and promoting his film. JimK accepted the anonymous donation after much consideration while making it all public, and utilized it for his wife. What exactly is the problem here?

Granted JimK said he would refund the money if he was able to do so, but I still fail to see how Mikey’s “confession” warrants JimK give the money back in the name of integrity. Why should Mike be further rewarded for such a clearly underhanded publicity stunt? Further, this was a DONATION and not a loan, so as far as my opinion is concerned, I wouldn’t give a dime back regardless.

Put differently, if Mikey was making a true donation—regardless of JimK’s feelings and policitcs regarding Mikey—an honest and sincere “donor” would not expect to be paid back and would return any of the money IF paid back. To request JimK refund the donation in lieu of all of these new facts JUST made public now would still be against Mike’s true intentions (assuming they were altruistic in the first place).

That’s what I call integrity...you may have a different definition than me…

That’s about the only correct thing you may have posted yet.

Firebrand,

Your post on the previous page is uncannily similar to one I just finished. Since you pretty much said what needed to be said, I would add just one thing--To all those arguing that JimK is somehow the bad guy in this situation, or has lost credibility because of it: Shut up, fuck off, and go away. It turns out that Moore’s motivation was every bit as duplicitous as Jimk suspected it might be. He was right you were wrong. Many of you owe him an apology and frankly you’ve made asses of yourselves.

I can see that you really have no argument at all as to why JimK shouldn’t return the money, even if it’s like $50 a month…

Congrats on the tenacity there little fella. It takes stones to hang in a fight that you’ve already lost. At any rate your position is idiotic. No one has to give you a reason that he shouldn’t give the money back. The burden is on you to make a case that it should be given back, and you haven’t.

Honestly I think he did it because he knew he’d get a rise out of you and it worked. I think he played you like a piano.

The best action would have been not to post anything at all and wait and see what was in the movie. Even then you should have kept comments on that topic to minimum acknowledgement and just go on critiquing the movie otherwise.

The best action would have been not to post anything at all and wait and see what was in the movie.

Bullshit. The Mooreons would be in here sneering and demanding that he comment on it, why he hid it all this time, etc. You’re just trying to hedge in the “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” angle, fucker.