has anyone read the New Orleans Comprehensive Evacutaion Plan for Hurricanes??  It can be found here.

It makes it pretty obvious who is at fault for all the people hurt down there.  When will the MSM find this and ask the MAYOR why it wasn’t followed insted of blame the feds.

When will the MSM find this and ask the MAYOR why it wasn’t followed insted of blame the feds.

When the mayor suddenly announces his defection to the republican party.

There are quite a few ways people died during and after the hurricane.  I’m wondering which ones people will hold Bush responsible for.

Hurricane.  A mandatory evacuation order was announced before the storm.  When Katrina hit New Orleans, thousands of people were still there.  If you died during the storm, you can blame the mayor for not helping you leave, you can blame yourself for not leaving, but you can’t blame Bush.

Flood.  When the levee broke, water rose very slowly throughout the city.  Another mandatory evacuation order was announced.  If you drowned, once again, you can’t blame Bush.

Crime.  Looters and other criminals with weapons went nuts on the city.  They robbed, raped and murdered wherever they went.  If you were among those murdered, please blame your murderer.

Starvation.  Time and time again we hear about how people are (start violins) “dying every single minute because they have no food.” Actually, it takes weeks to die of starvation.  If you starved to death, you stopped eating in early August.

Dehydration.  It takes 4 or 5 days to die from lack of water.  Can we at least assume the people who went to the shelters had a day’s worth of water?  Maybe two?  I watched helicopters dropping bottles of water on the convention center and superdome on Thursday.  There are pictures of it at WWL’s web site.  If you died of dehydration, you either need to blame the idiots around you who hoarded it or the people who shot at the helicopters and slowed down the water drops.  Help was there in time.

And to the thousands of people who ignored two evacuation warnings and couldn’t even be bothered taking a free bus to a shelter and who monopolized way too much of the rescuers’ time by requiring an air rescue one by one by one by one by one when those helicopters could have been used to give water to everyone, you may blame the voices in your head.

And to all of you who got through it, who suffered night after night in smelly conditions with empty bellies, who chanted angrily at how you were being herded like animals, who complained about the use of the word “refugee,” who think you were mistreated because you were black ... to all of you who are alive but think you have something to complain about, please feel free to fill out a comment card (press hard, you’re making 48 copies) and shove it up your ass.  You’re alive.

I remember hearing people complaining that all they had to eat were MRE’s and that they weren’t going to eat that.  These people weren’t some spoiled rich kids complaining that it wasn’t sushi.  I haven’t had an MRE, but gosh isn’t it better than nothing.

I remember hearing people complaining that all they had to eat were MRE’s and that they weren’t going to eat that.

Against anythig associated with the military.

On another note, i was reading the MSN blog of Katrina (where appearently anyone can post their opinions); every other post is complainig of how piss poor the federal gov reacted, or how bad Bush was not to come to the rescue sooner.  One person (unsurpriingly) said that this should cuase Bush to be impeached.

Its sad that people have to put the blame on someone like Bush no matter what the circumstance.  (crap… my laptop battery is getting low.....DAMN YOU BUSH!)

I remember hearing people complaining that all they had to eat were MRE’s and that they weren’t going to eat that.  These people weren’t some spoiled rich kids complaining that it wasn’t sushi.  I haven’t had an MRE, but gosh isn’t it better than nothing.

I’ve had an MRE before and I honestly didn’t think it was that bad. They come with little bottles of Tabasco to add extra flavoring too if you want. My ex-husband is a marine and he brought me some to try. I used to have the Tabasco bottles lined on the back of the stove to use when cooking :)

And yes...an MRE is a hell of a lot better than nothing. But I guess in this case beggars were choosers which is quite sad.

I wonder if the ex could send me some MRE’s? They really aren’t THAT bad.

para,

Once again, the nail hates you for hitting it so squarely on the head.

In the news reports that I have seen on the victims of Katrina, nearly all of them are standing around doing absolutely nothing but talking to the camera.  I keep on hoping that I am just seeing what happens when the cameras come on.  I keep on hoping that the rest of the time, these people are actually working towards their own survival and the survival of their fellow human beings.  I sincerely hope that we are seeing the distortions of a MSM that wants there to be more tragedy, which makes for more political ammunition against the President and other Republicans.  I keep on hoping that poor people in this area have not become so dependent upon things like welfare and other federal programs, that they can at least take minimal steps to ensure their own survival, and maybe (just maybe) the survival of the person next to them.

I keep on hoping.

Regarding MREs: I ate a lot of MREs during the post Hurricane Opal recovery and even more as part of the disaster recovery team for NAS Pensacola after Hurricane Ivan. They are not bad as long as the heating packs work (I was stuck on NAS Key West by the first Katrina hit and all of our heat packs were duds). Still, cold meat loaf beats not having food. As a Boy Scout years ago we hade surplus C rats and K rats; MREs are light years ahead of that stuff. Complaining about MREs is whining of the most blatant type.

can anyone explain this to me:

The news is reporting that the president may ask for an additional $40 Billion dollars in relief aid (in addition to the $10 Billion already approved) and some are saying the total could be as much as $100 Billion before they’re done.

So, how many people were affected that should/will receive this aid?  Many people (the majority) left early, have thier own insurance, surely won’t need too much, will they?

New Orleans had a population of 500,000.  Let’s assume that $50 Billion in Aid is used for roughly 1 million people.  That’s $50,000 PER PERSON!  I realize (I hope) that nobody gets a check for $50,000 from the government, but this sounds like alot of money per capita.  Even if twice as many people need “Aid”, doesn’t this sound like alot?

Well, New Orleans alone was 1.3 million if you count the whole New Orleans region and not strictly city limits. I think Mississippi is another 800,000 displaced, but I don’t know how many are back.
Keep in mind, also, that these just aren’t people that have lost homes...there’s also businesses and infrastructure that will need to be rebuilt, so its not just going directly to aid in the same sense as if someone was unemployed or just lost a house.

New Orleans had a population of 500,000.  Let’s assume that $50 Billion in Aid is used for roughly 1 million people.  That’s $50,000 PER PERSON!  I realize (I hope) that nobody gets a check for $50,000 from the government, but this sounds like alot of money per capita.  Even if twice as many people need “Aid”, doesn’t this sound like alot?

You’re forgeting about the clean-up costs along the coast line, gas for the buses and helos to move people from point A to point wherever. That also most likely includes additional funding to restore some building and levees.

I am glad people are pointing out the problems (besides blaming Bush) that turned a “routine” disaster into a catastrophy. I’ve been through a few Typhoons in my time where evactuation really wasn’t possible...as mentioned above, it is each person’s responsibility to prepare themselves.

As for the blame game in the following order the Mayor, the Govenor, the bureaucracy, FEMA, Homeland Security and then Bush. After the first three...the blame from me is pretty low.

The way Clinton kept that city from sinking in the 90’s and held off all major hurricanes was nothing short of god-like.

I’d like to fix this:
President Clinton
No. of blow jobs = 1
No. of preventable sinking of major cities = 1 so far

there we go...considering, if its a funding issue...since, the levees are what were tied to the sinking of the city, Clinton could’ve taken care of that.

So Dan, You think Bush could have stopped that Hurricane? Certainly even a guy like you doesn’t believe that.

On the other hand, like I stated before, the loss of historical buildings was indeed tragic, however, the situation only became a crisis when there were still people in those buildings when the storm hit. Who again was responsible for getting the folks out of the city? ( hint: The Mayor had about 3 days notice that this was going to happen)

Anyone who turns down an MRE when they are hungry is brain-bleeding idiot with barely the skill required to survive under normal circumstances.  Even the worst MRE is still pretty darn good in my opinion.

The US Military believes in the Napoleonic maxim “An army travels on its stomach” and spared no expense to provide troops with preserved meals that are not only nutritious, but good tasting and filling!  They even make Vegetarian MREs for soldiers who are vegetarian.

If you don’t believe me, go on ebay and do a search for them.  You should be able to pick up a 12 pack case for about $30-40 if you want to try a variety or a single MRE for about $6.  Just make sure you get the full pouch and not just an entree packet.

Just to go back to go back to a few comments that people made on another thread regarding the police officers who quit and that they should all be summarily fired. While I don’t necessarily defend their actions I think you should read this before you are too harsh, I don’t think any of us understand the conditions well enough to criticise any of these men and women.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168590,00.html

Oh and if anyone complains about the rations they have to eat screw em. Sorry, I am pretty liberal and I think a lot of things went wrong with this whole mess but anyone stuck there has to take what they can to survive. Mind you, does anyone actually have any proof that this is actually happening on a wide scale?? Or is it just hearsay that people are then taking out of proportion and playing politics with??

President Clinton
No. of blow jobs = 1
No. of preventable sinking of major cities = 0
President W Bush
No. of blow jobs = unconfirmed
No. of preventable sinking of major cities = 1 so far
Bush = Worst President Ever

I would like to fix this even further:

President Clinton
No. of blow jobs=<1 (no one can have just one!)
No. of Terrorist attacks against US interests/military/citizens= 8
No. of direst responses to said attacks= 0

President Bush
No. of Terrorist attacks=1
No. of direct responses of said attacks=1
Bresident Bush=President with the most balls since Truman

Keep in mind, also, that these just aren’t people that have lost homes...there’s also businesses and infrastructure that will need to be rebuilt, so its not just going directly to aid in the same sense as if someone was unemployed or just lost a house.

So, you think that the government should pay businesses to rebuild?

Do you think that the government should pay private utility companies to repair thier own infrastructure?

Do you think that the government should pay millionaires (or anyone that has insurance) to rebuild thier homes?

New Orleans had a population of 500,000.  Let’s assume that $50 Billion in Aid is used for roughly 1 million people.  That’s $50,000 PER PERSON!  I realize (I hope) that nobody gets a check for $50,000 from the government, but this sounds like alot of money per capita.  Even if twice as many people need “Aid”, doesn’t this sound like alot?

You’re forgeting about the clean-up costs along the coast line, gas for the buses and helos to move people from point A to point wherever. That also most likely includes additional funding to restore some building and levees.

No - I’m not forgeting anything.  Should it really cost the government more than $25,000 PER PERSON to fix things down there.  I would also venture to say that at least 1/2 the population in the affected area won’t or shouldn’t receive aid because of minimal damage and/or their personal financial situation.  This makes the dollar amount seem even more outrageous - especially when you consider all of the public donations and support.

No. of preventable sinking of major cities = 1 so far

Preventable how?

No - I’m not forgeting anything.  Should it really cost the government more than $25,000 PER PERSON to fix things down there.  I would also venture to say that at least 1/2 the population in the affected area won’t or shouldn’t receive aid because of minimal damage and/or their personal financial situation.  This makes the dollar amount seem even more outrageous - especially when you consider all of the public donations and support.

Yes, per capita is may SOUND like a lot. But you are ignoring (just as I am sure I a as well) several other costs. The massive clean-up required to:
1) remove the water from flooded cities
2) clean up and remove the sludge (not an easy or cheap job) in as much as an environment friendly manner as time and cost is willing
3)Repair or rebuild the infrastructure (ie roads, power lines, levees)
4) Demolish reuined houses/building and remove debris
5) Repair and or add new pump syste (not cheap by a long shot)
6) Fix governmental and historical buildings
7) Clean up environmental hazards caused by toxic water pumped out of the cities before treatment (due to time factor)
8) Feed, move, and help provide housing

The list can go on and on. I do not know what they claim what they’ll do with the money, but the to do list for the Feds is pretty long. Insurance will help people and business who were smart enough and could efford it. Everyone/everything else has to rely on savings, donations, NGOs (Red Cross) and the Feds.

Preventable how?

Don’t you see?  It’s clear that there’s an inversely proportional relationship between the number of blowjobs the President gets and the number of city-destroying hurricanes that hit the United States mainland.  If we let B be the number of blowjobs the President gets, and H be the number of hurricanes, we see that H = P/B, where P is a polical party constant (P = 1 if the President is a Democrat, 10,000 if Republican, infinity otherwise).

Unfortunately, dan’s math strays from the direction the function points.  Instead of “Bush = Worst President Ever”, the logic clearly shows that “Bush = Needs More Blowjobs.”

FLux,

That actually made me laugh out loud.

Couldn’t we all use more blowjobs?

New Orleans had a population of 500,000.  Let’s assume that $50 Billion in Aid is used for roughly 1 million people.  That’s $50,000 PER PERSON!  I realize (I hope) that nobody gets a check for $50,000 from the government, but this sounds like alot of money per capita.  Even if twice as many people need “Aid”, doesn’t this sound like alot?

The aid will go towards the infrastructure (roads, levees, pumping stations, water treatment, clean-up, etc..).  I just read yesterday on my company’s in-house news network (they post headlines so we aren’t cut off from the real world 10 hourd a day)that reebuilding the highways alone is a $1.5B project.  Homes and businesses will be rebuilt through insurance and private charities.

Sir Not Appearing In This Film

Considering the cost of resurfacing one stretch of interstate near me, I can easily imagine how it will cost billions and billions to rebuild/bulldoze New Orleans.  I have heard, however, that a number of people are contributing to the expense by overcharging the government.  For example, I understand the cost of hiring a truck and a driver for shipping supplies to New Orleans has tripled.

Epoch Flux wrote:
the logic clearly shows that “Bush = Needs More Blowjobs.”

This is American, the land of equality and opportunity, we should all be entitled to that.:)

Semi-OT

From Moore’s Site:

Friends,

There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years. Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can’t. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability. More hurricanes, wars, and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show.

There’s a lot more where that came from :)

Im just curious, If John Kerry were in office today.  How would he have stopped the ‘annihilation of New Orleans’?

While I don’t necessarily defend their actions I think you should read this before you are too harsh, I don’t think any of us understand the conditions well enough to criticise any of these men and women.

A person does not become a soldier, police officer, etc and expect to work only when life is good.  Should soldiers who go AWOL be given a free pass because they NEVER expected to see combat?  Should officers who have to enforce the laws during a crisis be given a free pass if it is too much for them.

I am sure we are talking about a small percentage of officers who deserted their post and perhaps are getting too much coverage for their craven ways.  We should be talking about the officers who did their job in the face of extraordinary circumstances.  I have a multitude of LEOs in my family and I would be sorely disappointed if any of them failed to do their job should Denver go through a natural disaster.

"Friends,
There is much to be said and done about the manmade annihilation of New Orleans, caused NOT by a hurricane but by the very specific decisions made by the Bush administration in the past four and a half years. Do not listen to anyone who says we can discuss all this later. No, we can’t. Our country is in an immediate state of vulnerability. More hurricanes, wars, and other disasters are on the way, and a lazy bunch of self-satisfied lunatics are still running the show.”

I want him to shut the fuck up.
Is there anything that lazy, finger-pointing liar WON’T do?
The truth is out there but not on Moore’s site.
Anger subsiding..... for now....

Im just curious, If John Kerry were in office today.  How would he have stopped the ‘annihilation of New Orleans’?

He would have come up with an easy to follow 19 step argument to debate the hurricane and thus deflect it with hot air.

You have to love Moore, nobody profits off of human tragedy like he does.  I wonder when the left will have enough of his contrarian, sophmoric and oft blatant lies.  He is doing more single handedly to kill that party than ANY Republican could hope to do.

Is there anything that lazy, finger-pointing liar WON’T do?

No.

If you read the rest of the article, he attempts to bring Casey’s Mom back into the spotlight.  (Someone doesnt want tehir 15 minutes to be up)

Is there anything that lazy, finger-pointing liar WON’T do?

Eat a salad?

Moore:

For the past few days I’ve been working with a group (Sheehan) that, I guarantee you, will get direct aid to the people who need it most (apparently, the people on dry land).

Working with?  Talking about someone is not working with them.  If he were working with them, they wouldn’t be begging for paper towels and handi-wipes.  He needs to stop giving himself credit for things other people do.

Im just curious, If John Kerry were in office today.  How would he have stopped the ‘annihilation of New Orleans’?

He has a plan.

He has a plan.

does that involve asking Germany and France for help? :)

Here are a few more items on the needs list for Sheehan’s/Moore’s “relief” effort:

Canon XL2Digital Video Camera
Digital Projector (3000 lumens)
Apple iPods with recording

I didn’t realize “direct aid” for the “people who need it most” included an appearance in a documentary.

On a side note, I’m beginning to believe some of the Communist spookery we were all so concerned about during the McCarthyist era.  Not because of fear tactics propogated by the right, either.  It’s from these people’s very words every time they open their mouths.  It’s the same thing Chavez is doing in Venezuela, trying to buy the Caribbean with bread and circuses.

More from Moore:

...make an immediate donation. Camp Casey-Covington will have immediate access to this cash and can buy the items themselves from stores that are open in Louisiana

So, if i donated, all my money would go straight to Casey’s Mom.  Hmmm… thats sounds safe.

Tomorrow, we will take care of the other work we need to do about the ideologically hamstrung incompetents in charge.

is he talking about those in charge at ‘Camp-Casey’?

Curious thought.  Michael Moore made a lot of money of the 9/11 terrorist attacks by blaiming Bush.  We already know that Hurricane Katrina turned into a national disastor and that Moore is already blaiming Bush.  How long before we see a documentary on this?

apologize for misspellings

...make an immediate donation. Camp Casey-Covington will have immediate access to this cash and can buy the items themselves from stores that are open in Louisiana

Remember, Moore guaranteed that the people who needed it most are the ones getting this aid.  So, are we to believe that the people who need it most are in Covington standing next to a store that won’t give them food unless they have cash?  That seems pretty friggin unlikely.

iggy21: God forbid.  He’ll probably call it The Assassination of New Orleans or something equally charming, and somehow manage to work in the fact that just two weeks earlier, Bush had been ignoring Cindy Sheehan on his front driveway, and call it typical of him to ignore things of vital importance - and THAT’s where we get the shot of the broken levees.

God, he’s so predictable it makes me want to hurl.

Ronnie wrote:
Canon XL2Digital Video Camera
Digital Projector (3000 lumens)
Apple iPods with recording

[sarcasm] All things that are mandetory for helping those less fortunate. How dare you question what the great one needs.[/sarcasm]

I find it more than a little funny that Moore would need to beg for this equipment when it is abundantly clear that he has the $$$ do do it himself.  But wait, Moore’s idea of “helping” is by getting other people to do it...God forbid he should have to spend his own money like those evil corporations who are spending millions upon millions of dollars to help…

What a cheap bastard.

I had the same thought as iggy21.  I can see Moore trolling around in a swamp boat with digital camera looking for a crackhead to interview.

Q:  Sir, sir are you a crackhead?

A:  You got any crack?  I’ll suck your d$ck.

Q:  Sir, sir, no really - when was the last time you received your “medication”? 

A:  Flood took my stash.

Q:  Sir, do you blame President Bush for you lack of “medication”?

A:  Bush?  <inaudible cursing> I ain’t had no bush since the flood…

Moore can always edit out the crackhead part.

reebuilding the highways alone is a $1.5B project. 

I’d hope not.  I’ve only seen one damaged bridge, that isn’t really anything special.  If they had to rebuild the entire bridge from scratch, I would be suprised if it cost more than $75M.

How long before we see a documentary on this?

Well, according to IMDB (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433561/) F 9/11 1/2 will be out in 2007. You know Sheehan’s mother and Katina hurricane will take the focus of the documentary and get a 2 hour standing ovation at Cannes Film festival.

With everything unfolding I can already see what news clips he will use in the sequel.

Brianjames- My business worked highway renovation project that rebuilt a stretch of highway through a moderately sized city. This project cost $400+ Million (which needless to say would be alot less than the highways throughout a city like NO).  One bridge alone may cost more than $75M.

To clarify what i said:  ‘The company i work for was invlolved in the project’ (its not my business)

Highway Improvement Costs

Road construction costs (grading and paving, not including planning and land costs) typically range from $250,000 per lane-mile in “easy” conditions up to $2,500,000 per lane-mile in “difficult” conditions (Construction and Maintenance Branch, 1998). Intersections also add significant costs. Rural intersections typically cost $2,000,000 to $4,000,000, while a standard urban interchange typically costs $10,000,000 to $15,000,000 for construction, plus planning and land costs. Table 4 summarizes typical costs for roadway projects under various conditions.