But Jim don’t you get it, it’s only corrupt when it is a Republican that does these things. I thought you knew that by now.

I’ve had the dubious honor of reading the whole thing. It’s smug, condescending garbage like this that makes me want to have ole Fudgebag meet a fist.

As far as Murtha goes, with the whole Abscam thing, I would be ok with it if he was found to have done nothing wrong, and it was completely isolated.  It was 26 years ago.  I think about what GWB was doing a few decades ago, and ya, Ill joke about it, but I dont think it has any real bearing on what he is doing today.  But with the “Murtha corner” thing they right about, if there is any truth to that, get him out.  Now.

Pelosi, I have to admit, I dont really understand that document, or what she did exactly, or what the outcome was.  If someone could explain further, I would appreciate it.  Dumb it down for a slow canadian will ya?

That should be “write about”, not “right about”.  Coffee.

we cant forget Harry Reid

and Wille J the 2nd

Up4 - Pelosi violated the exact same federal election laws that forced Tom Delay to resign.  Her PACS took too much of the wrong kind of money from corporate interests.

Like Tom, she paid a fine.  Unlike Tom, the Democrats did not make a huge stink out of her scandal and force her out of office with the help of a complicit media.

Even though they broke the exact same laws.

As for Murtha - You really think that was the last meeting Jack Murtha held where he promised favors for money?  In the last 26 years, you think he never again traded his influence for cash?

How naive are you? ;)

Like Tom, she paid a fine.

Thats the part I was trying to figure out.  Im trying to figure out that link you posted.  If I am reading it right, the letters (a-o) in the Respondents section are supposed to match the (a-o) in the Disposition section.  Pelosi is g, which reads “No reason to believe*”.  Im just trying to figure out what that means.

In the last 26 years, you think he never again traded his influence for cash?

How naive are you?

To be honest, I dont know a whole lot about Abscam.  From what I read, I dont knowthat he traded his influence for cash 26 years ago.  And I really dont care too much.  I would be more interested to know about the recent day promised earmarks in so called Murthas corner.  Like I said, if there is any truth to that, get rid of him.  He didnt get the No 2 job anyway, but I would suggest an “early” retirement with an Enron pension plan.

Hellooooo? Moore defenders? The ones that are always bitching that we never have anything about Moore? The ones that are always saying we’ve got nothing on him? Hellooooooo?

The only thing I’m hoping the government will do in the next couple of years is fight themselves into paralysis. That way, they won’t be able to bother me.

But why Nancy Pelosi? They must have someone better than that woman.

But why Nancy Pelosi? They must have someone better than that woman.

I agree, there are some good Democrats out there.  There must be something about the system I dont know about.  But now you know how many non-Americans feel about GWB as president (or John Kerry and Al Gore as his previous opponents).

Come to think of it, how long has it been since we’ve had someone who was full-out, completely stepping up to bat for Moore? I know we were gradually seeing more and more of the “Well I’m no fan of Moore, even though I own his books and videos and I think you’re completely wrong about him” sort, and then even those gradually fell off…

... Do we HAVE any hardcore Mooreons left? I mean, I doubt we’ve got any willing to post in a topic like this, because they’ve pretty much NEVER had the guts to post in a topic like this unless the first thing they did was try to shift the topic over to something Bush had done. But have they all died out? Has the world truly become a better place?

Oh my God.  Hysterical.  Moore stole the whole thing!

Im starting to think these things are just calculated.  Really, what else could it be?  This is right along the same lines as the pantagraph thing.  I know most will say Moore is just a moron, and thought he would actually just get away with these types of things.  I dont buy it.  I think its all about google hits.

Some highlights from the response on my blog:

2. I’d like to marry Cali Lewis from Geek Brief. I wonder what her husband Neil thinks of your promise not to stop me.

3. If you won’t spend my grandchildren’s money on whims then you won’t be buying health insurance for adults who make poor choices, aborting babies for adults who don’t show self control and make poor choices (or lack the ability to reason like, um, adults), causing substantial inflation by raising the wages teenagers make for wrapping my burritos at Taco Bell, and cleaning up my environment for me.

9. I don’t hunt and I don’t need an automatic weapon to protect myself from those who threaten my freedom and liberty. My rifle and pistol will do just fine. They even work on people who aren’t intelligent enough to grasp the importance of liberty and property rights in an organized society.

10. If you ever threaten to pay me minimum wage for my job I’ll quit. Like most Americans who are supporting families (or at least my dog) I make plenty. Unlike the ones whining about the minimum wage I choose to spend my income on a home, food, clothing, health care, and transportation first. I pay for my vices after I cover my needs.

Did I miss something?

hahaha… that was a very amusing letter, and better of it all, it was right.
I´m not a HUGE fan of Michael Moore, and I´m very sorry because yes, it sounds like plagiarism to me. 
Anyway, what do you think about the CONTENT of the letter?

3. If you won’t spend my grandchildren’s money on whims then you won’t be buying health insurance for adults who make poor choices, aborting babies for adults who don’t show self control and make poor choices (or lack the ability to reason like, um, adults), causing substantial inflation by raising the wages teenagers make for wrapping my burritos at Taco Bell, and cleaning up my environment for me.

It was likely Rush who modified the manisfesto to sound cartoonishly snide and condescending, and Diebold probably had a hand in planting them on Mikey’s computer.

I would want to spend the money myself.  After all, I earned it.  I’ll pay for my own healthcare and I’ll make responsible choices concerning my family so that I can afford to pay for theirs as well.  And I’ll even save some for my retirement and to pay for my children’s college education.

And then, when it comes time to spend that money, I’ll spend it exactly how I want to.  Because I earned it, saved it, and because it’s a free country.  It’s called liberty, the right to choose.

The founding fathers worried that a misguided majority would be able to squash the natural rights and liberty of the minority.  Moore and the left seem to have convinced a majority of Americans that they are entitled to things that most people have to EARN.  And as a majority they figure they can just take them.

Sadly, human nature says otherwise.  If you give away something that most people have to earn, fewer people will exert the effort to earn it.  And that will be the first steps towards the downfall of our country.

But why Nancy Pelosi? They must have someone better than that woman.

Because she’s a woman and there has never been a woman speaker of the house. I’ll guess that’s about 70% of the reason.

In Illinois I know people are suggesting for Brock Obama to run for president. The guy has no political experience aside from being a senator, so basically the only reason is that he’s of a minority race.

Just goes to show you, Moore doesn’t have an original thought in his head.

Didn’t Mikey also somehow pledge to help Flint, Michigan, after Roger Smith left it in shambles? Hows that noble project coming along?

http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/message/index.php?messageDate=2000-11-07

And each time, for the last 25 years, we have continued to settle for less and less, to the point where we have so depleted the political gene pool, the Democrats are now almost indistinguishable from the Republicans

- MM

biafra
Didn’t Mikey also somehow pledge to help Flint, Michigan, after Roger Smith left it in shambles? Hows that noble project coming along?

He’s helped out Flint and other financially strapped black communities by holding his cash cow movie festival in the wealthiest, whitest tourist town in Michigan.

In Illinois I know people are suggesting for Brock Obama to run for president. The guy has no political experience aside from being a senator, so basically the only reason is that he’s of a minority race.

Actually, he was a 2 term State Senator before running for US Senator.  And if you actually paid any attention to him, you might find that he’s a very interesting politician.  I’m a Republican and I would support his bid for the White House, because even though he might disagree with my political views, he still respects them.  It has nothing to do with race.  If that’s all it took, Jess Jackson or Al Sharpton would have been the Democratic cantidate already. 

Besides, how much political experience did Bush have when he took office?  4 years as Texas governor.  Considerably less than Obama.

Sir Not Appearing In This Film

Ok but what does the Senatorial duties have to do with governing the United States?

And if you actually paid any attention to him

Since you already assumed I haven’t, right?

Besides, how much political experience did Bush have when he took office?

Since you already assumed I’m a Bush supporter, right?

I hate people like you.

erm… I always tought the state should give three basic things to people: education, health and safety.  Whether you want to have a college education, or a mansion instead of a house, that was up to you.
People were born with that rights, they don´t need to earn it!

he might disagree with my political views, he still respects them.

No, he says he respects them and hopes that you don’t hold him to it. Lip service is easy, as many Democrats have found.

I’m sorry, while I was once also hopeful for Obama, what I’ve heard of him since he took “big” office has convinced me that he is neither a respectable person nor would he be a respectable President. He’d certainly be their only hope against Rice running, since yes, a bid for President by him would be playing one big giant race card.

(One of the things that’s made me lose my former respect for them is that he keeps that race card on him at all times, well-oiled so it’ll slide out of its hip holster like lightning when he decides to play it.)

Obama is like a toned down version of John Kerry.  A flip flopper with better ideas and a more genuine personality.

As a conservative, I like a few things he says, but i’ve notived that you may not always trust what he says.  There are also several issues he is very passionate about that I’m passionately against

erm… I always tought the state should give three basic things to people: education, health and safety. People were born with that rights, they don´t need to earn it.

And what about the duty to maintain these basic rights and hand them on to the next generation? If you decide to smoke crack under a bridge while you decide what do to your life and your unborn child you’re not supporting the system.

Rann,

I’m sorry, while I was once also hopeful for Obama, what I’ve heard of him since he took “big” office has convinced me that he is neither a respectable person nor would he be a respectable President.

Do you have some examples?  What Ive seen of him I like, so I would like to see what has turned you off of him.

xlokix-

There really are too many people like you in the world.

Unfortunately, nothing I can cite sources on. I didn’t keep the links handy or save the pages, nor would I even know where to begin looking on a google search. But I do remember reading an article where one of Obama’s fellow senators wrote him an open later, stating (paraphrased), “I’m so sorry I misunderstood your intentions. When you said you believed in this bill and wanted to work together on it, I believed your intention was to be honest. Sadly, once we were assembled, you spoke out and voted against it. I apologize for believing that you might be interested in being honest and actually working for bipartisan goals like you said you were.”

(When I pointed out things like this to a big Obama supporter, their response was: “So what?! All politicians are two-faced! It’s no big deal!")

I’ve also seen him pull the race card in several articles. In one, and this is a great quote, “Listen, I think it’s great that Republicans have discovered black people, But here’s the thing ... you don’t vote for somebody because of what they look like. You vote for somebody because of what they stand for.” Of course, he says this without giving any solid reasons of why black people should vote for him over a Republican. It’s all one big double-talk race card. (And that article is here.)

Inevitably, without fail, when I encounter someone who believes that Democrats are the party who works for and supports minorities, when I ask them what the Democrats or some Democrat supporter has actually done for minorities, the only reply is anger. When I asked said big Obama supporter what exactly Obama had done for black people besides launching a zinger across the Republicans’ bow, he became enraged and started cursing at me, telling me it was his blog and he’d support who he liked. Translation: he didn’t have a clue. And when he was provided with information that said, skin color aside, Obama was a horrible candidate for President and minority rights, he said that was interesting but didn’t matter.

Obama’s worst nightmare would be a world where people actually didn’t vote on skin color. But that’s exactly what he’s counting on, a world where they do.

You want a truly “free” country - I got yer “free” country right here:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,446045,00.html

I wouldn’t mind Obama beating Hillary in the primaries, and then McCain or Guiliani beating Obama in the election. What I really want is candidates who can verbally articulate their thoughts, are at least outwardly respectful towards one another and the voters, and who seem willing to work toward actual solutions to problems.

I also want a million dollars and an earth-shelterd house, and one of those really nice Dell Laptops...the new ones that fold up like a briefcase.

I can dream, right? Honestly, I’m more likely to get the laptop than I am the candidates.

Health and education aren’t rights in the same sense that life and liberty are.  What about people who choose not to accept your gift of “health” by eating poorly or smoking or using drugs?  And education is a bigger issue.  At the most you can provide people with an opportunity to become educated. Just as with health, you can’t force them to take advantage of it.  Many of the teenagers I work with coast by, barely passing their classes, and fail to actually become educated.  Instead of becoming educated they choose to spend their time on activities that will only lessen their potential to provide for themselves later.  This is their CHOICE.  They have the liberty to make that choice.  You can’t force them to choose differently but you can encourage them to choose more wisely.  Removing liberty and the consequences that come with making poor choices only encourages more poor choices.

Nah. They’re supposed to get free education offered them, then be able choose if/how they spend their time on campus. If they party, get hammered and pregnant, then free health care is supposed to kick in. Should the free safety net fail, say, by their overlooking in a drunken stupor a stop sign badly placed by the government, they should be compensated by the govt.

Vote No accountability.

xlokix-

There really are too many people like you in the world.

I would say that there aren’t enough people like me. People like you have turned our society into one in which an apology is never enough, a world where race and gender is of extreme importance, and contradicting drama to “do what’s right” ensues in every peice of legislation proposed. I don’t even know where to start with the exploitation. I do love having to put my race under “Other” for job applications just so I can get a freaking interview, I really do.

And what makes you think that describes me?  Thanks for proving my point though.

I was using the same bullshit you used to describe me. And I didn’t say it was you, I said people like you.

I was using the same bullshit you used to describe me.

I described you?

And I didn’t say it was you, I said people like you.

Thanks for clearing that up. 

Really though, you hate people like SirNot, because you think he called you a Bush supporter when he clearly did no such thing.  And people “like me” have turned our society into something you do not like, even though we still arent sure what “like me” means. 

I can see you have a problem with minorities.  That part is obvious.  But you shouldnt go around judging people so quickly when you know nothing about them.  Might help you out here, and in the real world.  Maybe with them freakin minorites too!  Steady keeping the white man down!

Well, since up4debate apparently woke up retarded today, I’ll just point out something that people like him are indeed doing:

Canadian liberals enraged over Harper bringing up China’s human rights abuses. Apparently, Canadian liberals’ hate of America is way, way more important than little old things like actual human rights abuses, and Harper is putting Canada’s attempts to be dependent on China instead of on America in jeopardy by saying “Hey, maybe we shouldn’t stay silent on this.”

But what’s a few slaughtered dissidents when it means breaking away from America, eh, up4debate?

Ok but what does the Senatorial duties have to do with governing the United States?

Ummmm, plenty.  According to your logic, only VPs would be qualified to be President.  We’ve had many senators and representitives go on to live at 1600 Pennsylvania.  But don’t let that stop you from your petty littl rant.  14 years of government/poltical experience is nowhere near enough…

Since you already assumed I haven’t, right?

Yep.  I sure did.  And I stand by that assesment too… Something about how his race would be the only reason hed run… yeah… Let’s not forget that you can’t even spell his name (It’s Barack not Brock), and yeah, I question how much you know about him other than that he’s a black democrat…

Since you already assumed I’m a Bush supporter, right?

Nope, not at all.  Guilty conscience?  Perhaps a little projection thrown in there as well?  I was just pointing out the lack of governing experience that our current President has.  Actually, many of our Presidents have limited governing experience. 

I hate people like you.

I pity people like you who are so wrapped up in thir neat little pre-packaged politcal standings that they see any disagreement on political matters as an attack on them personally.  Fact is, the majority of Americans don’t fit in either party completely.  Me, I’m a fiscal conservative and a social liberal.  I’m behind the Reps when it comes to taxes, smaller government (except for this administration anyway), my 2nd ammendment rights, and military sepnding and behind the Dems on issues of individual rights (minorities, homosexuals) and abortion.  You assumed I was some liberal just out to bash all EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL republicans.  Truth is, I wasn’t.  It was just you and your ignorance I was gunning for.  Seems like I hit my mark pretty well. 

I do love having to put my race under “Other” for job applications just so I can get a freaking interview, I really do.

Funny thing… I’m white and I’ve never had aproblem getting an interview.  Ever think that maybe you just weren’t qualified?  You’re as bad as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton.  Not that I agree with affirmative action… quite the opposite.  I think it does more harm than good, and it does harm to those it is supposed to be helping because it always leaves that little nagging question of “Did they just get the job because of their race?” And you sir exemplify that ignorant position to the tee with your whole, “I won’t get an interview if I’m white because of affirmative action!” schtick. 

Sir Not Appearing In This Film

I’m sorry, while I was once also hopeful for Obama, what I’ve heard of him since he took “big” office has convinced me that he is neither a respectable person nor would he be a respectable President.

After reading his book, I’m going to guess that his politics were based a lot on the way the Reps and President played ball.  He tells of a situation where the Executive branch (don’t remember if it was Bush or Cheney) was trying to garner support for a bill and asked if he’d support it.  He said that he could, but if they made a few changes to the bill, they could garner much more support from the Dems, and probably get a 70-30 vote.  The response?  “I don’t need 70 votes.  I need 50.” Would you be inclined to vote the other way when you know that’s the mentality coming at you?  Politics is supposed to be about give-and-take; about finding a middle ground that will serve the greater good.  This isn’t an all-or-nothing world.  But the current administration has turned it inot all-or-nothing politics.  At least under Clinton he had to work for his last 6 years with the other side in order to accomplish anything.  I actually like that, because it means that all the citizenry’s interests are being focused on, not just those who elected you.  I am truly scared to death that the Democrats will hold the majority in both houses and win the Presidency in ‘08 because the backlash that will come down on Republicans and conservatives from this administration will be like a fucking tsunami.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Sir Not Appearing In This Film

I am truly scared to death that the Democrats will hold the majority in both houses and win the Presidency in ‘08 because the backlash that will come down on Republicans and conservatives from this administration will be like a fucking tsunami.

Oh, I think the Democrats’ behavior between now and then will keep them from taking a majority or the presidency in ‘08.

Oh, I think the Democrats’ behavior between now and then will keep them from taking a majority or the presidency in ‘08.

I hope you’re right… Either that or if they do take the Presidency, let them lose their majority.  I don’t care which.  I just don’t want a Democrat repeat of the last six years.

Sir Not Appearing In This Film

Rann-

Again with the “people like me” eh?  People who voted for Harper?  People who think China is the next great threat?  People who know how important the US-CDN trade relationship is? 

Put your helmet back on.

Response back from the newspaper about the article:

Thanks for your note. This issue was brought to the attention of editors in op-ed last week. No one has approached the Times editors about this directly, but the website that seems to have fostered some of these accusations apparently now shows the allegations being retracted. In any case, the piece by Michael Moore that was submitted to the L.A. Times was based on an original piece by Moore that he wrote and delivered in October 2004—anticipating a victory in the 2004 presidential election—making a pledge to conservatives in his audience. He updated it and made it relevant to this current 2006 election for the L.A. Times.

His 2004 piece seems to predate anything that had been suggested as being similar.

Any truth in this?

Ahahahaha, up4debate’s going to pretend that he’s not a Canadian liberal.

Suck it up and realize that your little semi-country has failed, shit-for-brains. Start over, maybe you’ll get an actual population this time. I suggest leaving out the French.

Rann, you are awesome. 

I am more left than right on most issues.  You might want to sit down for this part though…

I dont blindly vote for any parties candidate.  I know thats a wild and crazy idea.  And Im sure its “people like me” who have ruined the electoral process in both of our countries.  If everyone just voted for the same party all the time, there would be no need for any candidate to campaign, saving millions of dollars along the way.  It would be far easier if everyone just registered as left or right, for their lifetime, and that would dictate who would be in power.  That would be so much easier, no? 

But its people like me, who vote against those on the same side of the left/right spectrum if I feel they dont deserve to be in power, that ruin the process. 

And whats wrong with our population?