Beating someone to the punch
This was my initial reaction, written in the heat of the moment. For more, please read this post and this one.
Awhile back you may remember me discussing some personal issues here on the site, specifically my problems in getting good health insurance. I got some great advice from readers, ultimately leading me to a good plan that costs around a thousand dollars a month, but is still less than a third of our previous out-of-pocket yearly medical costs.
After I posted about finding the plan and what the cost was, someone emailed me and asked if an “anonymous” benefactor could offer to pay my first year’s premiums. $12,000. I was skeptical of course, but since I’m not an idiot, I accepted. When the check arrived, I was overly cautious. I tracked the company that issued the check, the bank it was drawn on...I found a hotline you could call to check the status of drafts issued by this third-party company, and the number on the check (actually more like a money order) checked out. I even went so far as to see where the branches of the issuing bank might be physically located, and there are like five of them within walking distance of Moore’s home and office in New York City.
I was still a bit skeptical, so I opened a whole new account at my bank, waited for it to clear, checked twice with bank personnel to make sure it wasn’t a scam, and waited a full 60 days before spending the money. At that time, I started drawing on it and paying the monthly premiums until it was gone. The whole time...from the moment I was first emailed (and I still have all the emails with full headers if it becomes necessary to publish them) I was convinced that it was Michael Moore behind it all.
I knew he was using me. I knew he would try to turn this to his advantage some day. That day may be upon us. I was just warned by someone in the know that Moore is about to drop the hammer on me.
Could this all be nonsense? Was it a truly anonymous person who was just trying to make my life easier after the hell we’ve been through the past 7 years? is it possible that Moore has nothing to do with this and never did?
Maybe.
Is it possible that Moore is going to try to make me into one of his little puppets and pull a “gotcha?” Yes. Yes it is. I wish I knew what the truth was. I don’t. I only know my part in it.
For the record: I’m not an idiot. I know when to say yes to something, even if the string attached is obvious. $12,000 was like manna from heaven at that time. As you all may remember, I was being bled dry by the scumbag that used to host the server on which this site resides. My business was almost dead, my wife was very, very ill and I was racking up a few little health problems of my own. That money made it possible for us to begin to turn our lives around.
If I knew that money came from the tax base, if it was government money, I would have said “no.” I didn’t and don’t believe in supporting a “universal” health care system, and I don’t think it’s the role of government to steal from the rich and give to the poor.
What I support, and what I was led to believe, was this was a private individual that wanted to remain anonymous who just wanted to help me on a person-to-person basis. That is why I said yes. That, and what kind of moron turns down a free twelve grand?
Again, please let me be crystal clear on what I think is the most important poiunt here: I was told this was a private individual who just wanted to help me personally. It had nothing to do with the site, politics or anything else. I was told it was just someone who decided they could help another person. That is why I said yes.
If this was Moore behind it all, then I have to say...nice try, dude, but I’m not going to play your game. You can call it a cost of promotion. This site has sold more books and DVDs for you than that $12,000 could ever buy. You’ve gotten your money’s worth. If it was you, Mikey...your $12,000 doesn’t buy my silence. It won’t buy my affection, nor will I shy away from talking about whatever may or may not be in your new film. I’ll still be the same guy, expressing my opinion and trying his best to research facts you tend to skip over or ignore. All you bought for your money - if it was yours - was the peace of mind of knowing you actually helped someone who needed it. Wouldn’t it be nice if that was where is stayed? Ultimately, my accepting that donation has absolutely no bearing on the larger debate about health care in America, and I won’t engage you or anyone else in a bank-and-forth on it so you can sound-byte my words into something they aren’t.
You can read all about any response I may or may not have in the future at Moorewatch.com.
Comments
Hm. It would certainly be an interesting precedent, though. Moore rarely chooses to actually put a face to his detractors, preferring to keep them faceless and vague when he refers to them, all the better to keep them dehumanized. It’s much easier to discredit a vague concept of “them” than actual people, after all.
Through the years, Moore has pretty much refused to acknowledge the existence of this site. He goes so far as to eradicate it selectively from articles he puts on his own site. To suddenly “out” us in not only an attempt to bolster his point but basically to personally attack you (after all, what’s $12,000 to him after the millions he’s made off the blood of Americans and other soldiers?) would be an interesting turnaround. Moore’s personal attacks are usually aimed either at politicians he knows he has nothing to fear from or people he’s leading along and have realized the scam.
Though Moore could always have decided to team up with the old provider to tell some outrageous lies about the site and its purpose. Those two seem like they came from the same mold.
Jim,
Check your e-mail…
The irony, if Moore had actually helped then it should make you think twice next time you go vote for the republicans who afterall support the system in which you would be forced to recieve no treatment at all yet someone born into wealth and who hasn’t worked a day in their lives would!
(after all, what’s $12,000 to him after the millions he’s made off the blood of Americans and other soldiers?)
I can think of several companies who make the money Moore (who didn’t support the war BTW) has made look like a drop in the ocean. But you haven’t ever criticised them have you? Useful idiot.
Well I guess never look a gift horse in the mouth, right?
I’m guessing George Soros gave you his thanks. whoever it was, rock on, get well soon, both of you.
JimK do you think you would of got better healthcare if you lived in for example, Cuba?
The irony, if Moore had actually helped then it should make you think twice next time you go vote for the republicans who afterall support the system in which you would be forced to recieve no treatment at all yet someone born into wealth and who hasn’t worked a day in their lives would!
Paul you truly are an utter fucking moron. Did you even read anything written? Not to mention your outright lying or complete idiocy.
Paul, perhaps you should read the posting on Cuba before you come back to this. It would help you look less foolish.
Ok Buzzion why dont you answer the question.
Asssuming this mystery donor didn’t give JimK the cash he needed, would he or his wife of faired better under a socialist system rather than not getting treated under the U.S system at all? You know the answer, i know the answer so stop being such a pussy with the ad hominems and answer it.
I don’t need to answer it. Because jimk answered it. Why don’t you learn to fucking read before you open your moronic mouth.
First off jimk was able to find a healthcare plan that would work for him. The offer to pay for it was that of a charity. But he would still have paid the money to get the healthcare. So you know your stupid little claim that republicans don’t want anyone but rich people to have healthcare is beyond moronic.
Jimk already answered your question about socialized medicine:
If I knew that money came from the tax base, if it was government money, I would have said “no.” I didn’t and don’t believe in supporting a “universal” health care system, and I don’t think it’s the role of government to steal from the rich and give to the poor.
Looks like he’s answered your question before you even asked it. If your socialized medicine has a cure for stupidity you obviously haven’t taken it.
Here’s another point for you to look at you fucking moron. They were being treated under the US system. It was costing them a lot of money but again they were still alive. And if you could read you’d have known that.
And maybe they would have gotten “better” treatment for this. Or maybe it would be decided she was too high risk and they won’t give her the full treatment she needs since they need to keep their costs down. Or maybe the number of qualified doctors or nurses would be reduced to aid in the treatment, since some incentives to work in the medical field would go away. Or perhaps something happens and they need to go to a hospital that is overcrowded with people exploiting their “free” healthcare and they die because they couldn’t get through fast enough.
Oh and how about looking at the profit margins of those companies you are talking about and compare them to the profit margin moore’s movies make.
I’m not conducting an ad hominem attack. You’re a moron plain and simple. This doesn’t discount what you’ve said. What you’ve said is discounted because it is as equally stupid as you are, for being off topic as well as already having the answers available to you.
First off jimk was able to find a healthcare plan that would work for him.
Bullshit, he used the Moorewatch readers to find one for him. What about the millions of people who do not have access to a site such as this? Lets discount that though right? :)
So you know your stupid little claim that republicans don’t want anyone but rich people to have healthcare is beyond moronic.
Actually republicans generally support the free market approach which for anyone with any kind of grasp at economics will know (due to the high costs) is only in reach if your making alot of money. You don’t have to be “rich” to afford healthcare, you just can’t be poor.
And maybe
You use the word “maybe” alot. “Maybe” the rest of the world is laughing at your system for a reason, ever thought of that you dumb cunt?
Sounds like something MM would do. If true and now that you have beat him to the punch, I have to wonder how he could use this to his advanage.
If he brought it up in his movie, what would he say? I guess he could spin that your site hates him but he holds no grudge or that even when he helped you that you still dispise him or the like?
It will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
With that said, I hope everything is indeed better with you an your wife. This is one of the first sites I looked at after Bowling for Columbine. This was the first film I had seen of Moore and something just did not feel right with what he was saying on screen.
Thanks for keeping it up and running. I know I, and others, appriciate it.
Useful idiot.
You’re not, really, you’re hardly useful to Moore at all. But I guess you have to give yourself all the consolation you can.
By the way, Moore’s tactic of selectively picking and choosing what to quote and put in a post works in a movie where people can’t respond to him directly. Now, a person of normal intelligence might have realized by now it doesn’t work so well on the internet, but then we understand why you haven’t quite latched on to it.
Paul - you ignorant prick - someone who reads this site pointed me to my state’s resources on the web, where I found that there was already a program from a carrier in place for small business owners like me to get insurance for themselves and their employees. And no one had to steal money from “the rich” to do it.
So you can stuff your pissy little comments right up your ass. Next time you want to know something about me, ASK ME. Don’t talk shit like you know me.
As for your stupid argument that the free market can’t solve this problem; I’m in a pool. Privately. With hundreds of other small business owners. None of us are rich - I’m far, far, FAR from it. And yet, I manage to have the best plan money can buy in my state. Why?
Because the market saw a need and filled it. And I was smart enough to ask for help, and someone else was smart enough to know where to look up the info I needed.
You don’t need the government for ANY OF THAT.
The irony, if Moore had actually helped then it should make you think twice next time you go vote for the republicans who afterall support the system in which you would be forced to receive no treatment at all yet someone born into wealth and who hasn’t worked a day in their lives would!
Oh Jesus Christ you’re stupid. It;s not that I would be “forced to receive no treatment.” What the fuck does that even mean? How can you be forced to receive nothing? I think that idiotic sentence is indicative of the level of your intelligence...but I’ll pretend it made sense.
In this country it is AGAINST THE LAW for a hospital to refuse treatment. Let me be clear before you type the same stupid sentence again - IT WAS NEVER AN ISSUE OF GETTING TREATED. IT WAS ABOUT WHO WAS GOING TO PAY FOR IT. One more time, for the slow kids in the back: my problem wasn’t getting treatment, it was about not asking the government to pay for it. I qualified for assistance. I could have shitty government health care. I make little enough money that US taxpayers could have been made responsible for my bills.
I bet you’d love that wouldn’t you?
And no, I would not get better health care in a third-world country where only the friends of a communist dictator - or movie directors who do back-room deals - can get the best hospitals.
By the way, you are such an idiot it makes my brain hurt just to be forced to respond to you.
Congratulations Paul . . . you just got skewered. But don’t feel special . . . it happens pretty frequently on this site when small minds like you reveal their ignorance.
By the way, bismarck gave you some excellent advice:
Paul, perhaps you should read the posting on Cuba before you come back to this. It would help you look less foolish.
And speaking of small minds . . . look who joined the discussion!
Ha. So, what are you going ot do Jim. What are you going ot do if Moore is indeed behind the 12K?
Thanks for the charity but you’re still wrong and a lying deceitful man.
then instead of seeing the larger problem that Moore is trying to raise in the process
How nice of you to agree that Moore is just trying to create problems.
What’s the score? Baah! Where’s Anna Nicole when we need her! Baaah! Moore hates America! Osama is responsible for 9/11! Iraq was a threat! Bush cares about the American people! The North American Union isn’t real! You crazy left wing conspiracy theory nutty guys! Yeeeee! hhaaa!
You have just demonstrated that no longer will anything you say be treated as a thought even resembling that of a human being. You are scum sucking filth not even worthy of the definition of life.
Considering that there are mutliple websites out there that point out the lies deceits and outright fabrications of Michael Moore, including this one, yes he is wrong and a liar. And you are one of the parasites in his folds of fat just waiting for the next scraps to fall from the food he shoves down his face so you can praise him for the glorious gifts he gives you.
The day you are a rational human being is the day michael moore and rosie o’donnel are skinnier than lindsay lohan
Why does M Moore make you more angry through your percieved “lies deceits and outright fabrications of Michael Moore”? What is it you think he’s trying to do? What is his motivation for being such a lying bastard?
He doesn’t make me angry sorry. But that doesn’t mean he’s not a liar and a deceitful man. Look up the Pentagraph moron. Look up his lies about the recruiters leaving the “rich” mall to go to the “poor” mall because they couldn’t get any recruits, when the truth was just the opposite. Go look up his chasing after congressmen asking them to sign their children up for the military, even when the congressman had no children and its the decision of the individual to join the military not their parent’s decision. Why don’t you go watch the new documentary about moore which proves the entire basis of his movie “roger and me” was a lie because he actually did get to talk to the man, but when the makers of the documentary wanted to speak to moore he would never allow them to. I know here’s a thought why don’t you actually read this site where the point out all the lies and deceits moore has done and quit wasting everyone’s time.
His motivation is simple, he wants a socialist near communistic society, where rich people like him are allowed to have armed protection but the average person isn’t.
“You are scum sucking filth not even worthy of the definition of life.” That is the type of rational thought that makes you people awesome. Down with America and it’s stupid freedom of speech! Right Mr. Oin?
And I really must say that I love this. Notice I did not tell you that you were not allowed to talk. Here’s the problem with freedom of speech though, not only does it allow you to spew forth your moronic drivel that has no semblance of a rational thought but it allows me to tell you that what you have said is moronic drivel with no semblance of rational thought. Freedom of Speech allows me to say that no one should listen to you.
Now how about you engage in some actual conversation.
Why do you think that Osama bin Laden isn’t responsible for 9/11 and if he isn’t then who is?
Nope not going to do that. I gave you answers you now need to answer mine, you cowardly little shit. Maybe then I’ll point out again why I’m right and you’re just Moore’s little lapdog.
Guys. He’s talking about the North American Union. That’s stuff on the level of “The Russians have weather control satellites that they used to create Katrina”. He’s obviously never met a whacko conspiracy theory he didn’t like. This one’s not even a leftard troll, he’s just purely delusional.
Guys. He’s talking about the North American Union. That’s stuff on the level of “The Russians have weather control satellites that they used to create Katrina”.
I knew those bastards were behind global warming!
He’s obviously never met a whacko conspiracy theory he didn’t like.
True, and Diamonds likes to characterize what others say in order to “prove” a conspiracy. All his rhetoric about having an honest debate is just that . . . meaningless rhetoric.
What kind of stupid idiot do you have to be to think that Republicans are the sole cause of the current state of health care in America?
Who started this welfare system? Who protects trial lawyers and advocates for MASSIVE lawsuits that drive the cost of health care and medicines through the roof?
I can name one person off the top of my head. John Edwards. Is he a “neo con?” BTW, when I see someone use that phrase/word, I immediatly shave 50 points off my expectations of their IQ.
He’s out to spread truth and enlighten humanity.
Wow. How can one even respond to a person like you? You actually thin Moore tells the truth?
Folks...maybe we should let this one starve to death from a lack of attention. It’s impossible to carry on anything resembling a rational conversation with someone who can’t admit that Moore lies to make his “points.”
Wow, Diamonds is back. So, Mr. Aremyfriend, have you finished your research? You know, the research you promised to go do, and then get back to us about how the Shadow Bankers somehow managed to blow up buildings without anyone seeing any explosives or detcord being set, because they wanted to start some kind of inevitable chain of events that would lead to something unpleasant for the average person? Do you remember that? You did promise to do research and then return and give us all irrefutable proof.
Tell us more about how a fire generated by fuel can’t melt steel! I would be interested in your explanation of the fire that melted steel on the MacArthur maze in Oakland.
And when you’re done with that, tell us about YOUR health care plan. How would YOU go about getting quality health care for 300 million people without placing an undue burden on any of them? And when you’re done with that, tell us how you’d handle the influx of illegal immigrants who would be risking their lives to get a piece of that Big Doctor Pie.
Ok, Mr. AreMyFriend, the spotlight is on you. The crowd is hushed and ready to listen to the pearls of wisdom to fall from your mouth like a nickel slot in a Reno supermarket.
Ladies and Gentlemen, Moorewatch is proud to present, DiamondsAreMyFriend.
Take it away.
I don’t know which fold you’re talking about. Maybe you’re talking about the fold where they put all the sheep that use phrases like “whack tacky.” What does that mean? How does one go about becoming “whack tacky?”
As far as those “issues” you raised, it looks like the same cowardly tactic you tried before. It went something like this: You say something ,we refute it. Then, instead of admitting you were wrong, or coming up with further evidence to support your claim, you’d bring up another one of your “issues”, hoping that we would forget about how you failed to prove the previous one.
I think we should wrap up our old business before we start on something new. Since you seem to be enlightened, I invite you to please share your light with us, like a shepherd with a lantern, searching for that lost sheep before the wolves get him. Tell us about how the Shadow Bankers are working their invisible DetCord strings to bring us under their nefarious thrall. Be sure to throw in some stuff about oil pipelines and the infamous “Amero” while you’re at it.
The floor is yours.
Good God, how man of these kind of folks have drifted in over the years.
It’s funny how they all have a common theme:
Regardless of the topic, the US is always engaged in a diabolical comic book style plot.
And that, my friends, is why I don’t smoke the reefer.
Belcatar, isn’t one of the Shadow Bankers now on TV . . . you know, the guy that sits in the upstairs booth and calls Howie Mandel with an offer on Deal or No Deal?
(Like Diamonds, I’m just working on clues without any mysteries.)
It’s funny how they all have a common theme:
Regardless of the topic, the US is always engaged in a diabolical comic book style plot.
Yeah . . . and the list of characters they use as credible references comes straight out the funny papers . . . or in Diamonds case, YouTube.
ENOUGH.
This guy has hijacked the purpose of this thread, and he’s done that little trick for the last fucking time.
NO MORE RESPONDING TO THE TROLL PLEASE. Diamonds, if you want posting privileges back, you need to email me privately and convince me you are worth it. This is MY digital living room and I’m tired of you throwing turds around and calling it a nice visit.
So, is anyone actually checking his youtube links? I’m guessing they’re just the youtube equivalent of tubgirl or something. I can’t imagine they’d have any real relevance either way, but if he is just trying to stealth-squick, wouldn’t that prove he’s just plain trolling and be cause for banning?
Dammit, I always get here too late.
Well, to getting back to the point, and taking heed of Jim’s wished not to go troll feeding…
Jim, if you’re right about Moore being your benefactor, you should seriously start getting prepared for media attention.
This is actually another blessing he has given you; (unintentionally, of course.) The opportunity for a stage by which to denounce and expose him, further.
With ‘Sicko’ hitting Cannes next week, and the furor of media attention he’ll be getting because of it, and his recent criminal activities, you are certainly going to be caught up in the fray.
Just think strategy; he’ll try to use this to bash and discredit you. Be prepared, tactically, to defend and counter-attack.
On a side note, though… was that Paratrooper I just saw?
Holy crap, man! Where the hell have you been?
Good to see you again!
I think we’d all be ready to serve as witnessess to JimK’s anti-Moore activites if ole’ Mikey tries to bushwhack him.
I have seen MM’s new movie and I think that it is a bit different than most of his films. It is not as questionable as the others. I have friends from many of the places he featured that all agree that the info that he has used regarding their countries is correct. I can’t legally talk about what is in the film but I can say that I think that it will appeal to a much larger audience than the rest of his films.
Considering that at Cannes the movie wasn’t even shown, just clips, I’m interested to know how you’ve seen the whole thing. Or are you not “legally” allowed to explain that?
I’m still going with the earlier predictions that this will be the movie to make a lot of former Moore fanatics go “This time he’s gone too far!”, since he’ll be attacking businesses and areas where they’re invested. (Unless he’s been very careful to just go after the political aspects, which I wouldn’t put past him.)
JimK, I’ve been waiting for this to get back on track...finally.
Just a quick word of caution, check with your tax guy and make sure you declare the $12k “gift”
I wouldn’t want Mikey to get you, like they got Capone...on tax evasion.
I have seen MM’s new movie and I think that it is a bit different than most of his films. It is not as questionable as the others. I have friends from many of the places he featured that all agree that the info that he has used regarding their countries is correct.
pphelps, I’m not sure I really understand what you’re saying here. It’s very difficult for me to believe the same Michael Moore that gave us Roger & Me has any intention of providing the public with an honest comparison of different healthcare systems, especially in light of this trip to Cuba. Putting lipstick on a crocodile doesn’t change the nature of the beast.
JimK said it best on the Cuban Refugees thread dated 4/16. Our system isn’t perfect. It’s not difficult to find fault with it, but resorting to cheap stunts that skew reality is all too commonplace with Michael Moore’s style of propaganda. That he’s already playing “victim” by implying he’s subject to unjust investigation regarding this trip is nothing more than an attempt to discredit the “Bush Administration” – which, by the way, is Mikey’s term for all conservatives.
Let’s put it this way . . . it’s highly likely Moore is going to showcase all the virtues with none of the faults of other healthcare systems while contrasting this to all the faults and none of the virtues of our system. Meanwhile, all the Mooreons out there, being the useful idiots they are, will eat it up with a fat fuckin’ ladle, and not a one of them will ever question how Fidel Castro provides adequate healthcare to Cuban citizens by spending a mere $251 per capita without having a single pharmaceutical company in the entire country.
Let me give you an illustration of how to spin facts to skew reality. Are you aware that a few years ago (2005, I think) Castro, being the benevolent kind of guy he is, gave all the medical doctors in Cuba somewhere around a 25% raise in pay. That is a fact. If you ask a Cuban citizen about this they would probably tell you this is “correct” – using your word, of course. If you let that fact stand alone, it sure sounds good, doesn’t it?
However, when you also point out this is the first raise they have received in 23 years, it sorta puts this fact in perspective. Then, when you mention that medical doctors in Cuba are now making a whopping 35 bucks a month, or thereabouts, that raise doesn’t mean much, does it? It does explain, in part, why Cuba is still a third world country . . . but hey, Mikey will tell you they have “free” healthcare, not to mention free education, so at least those doctors don’t have student loans to repay.
So, on the surface, I would be very hesitant to seek medical care in a country where the average taxi driver makes more than a medical professional . . . provided you don’t count the under-the-table money the MD gets from illegally selling medical services for a price. Maybe it’s a tribute to Cuban MDs that they are indeed competent and do provide the best service they can under the circumstances, but their system is not without fault. And I have no use for a Third World communist totalitarian who rants about how a 50-year old revolution has made life so much better for his people, then writes a letter to the UN complaining about the multitude of serious problems his wonderful healthcare system has because of a U.S. embargo . . . as if he hasn’t had time to develop his own pharmaceutical and medical industry like other countries have done over that span of time. It’s Fidel’s same old worn out theme: Those uncaring, evil American capitalist – you know, the ones who foster the very environment where innovative medical research companies spring up every week – won’t sell us their technology, although the bastards did provide us with over 200 million bucks in foreign aid for humanitarian purposes back in the 90’s. (By the way, that money came from my tax dollars . . . if Cuba’s healthcare system is so damn great, then I want my money back!)
What do you want to bet facts like these won’t be in Sicko? It’s just not Mikey’s style to make the real documentary you imply he has made. Maybe Moore will prove me wrong, but given his track record, his narcissistic tendency to be seen as a champion of the little guy, and his chronic need to find fault with this country while preaching to the choir (his base of misfits who dole out tons of cash for confirmation that America is as evil as they all need it to be), I have to doubt I will be pleasantly surprised.
Cuba, meanwhile, has stepped into the fray with Granma, the Communist Party newspaper, describing Moore as a victim of the US embargo and censorship.
The sanctions were referred to as “a criminal action that has cost lives and grave consequences for the inhabitants of the island” and Americans.
“Any resemblance to McCarthyism is no coincidence,” it added, referring to US Senator Joseph McCarthy’s 1950s witch hunt for suspected communists in the US.
The action against Moore “confirms the imperial philosophy of censorship” by US officials.
I don’t get it. Surely the best free healthcare in the world could’ve saved a few people somehow afflicted by a measly embargo?
You know, Jim, as a nice counterpunch to whatever Moore has coming your way (or just to hit him with, anyways) I had an idea after reading the following exchange from the previous post;
RANN:
I wonder . . . is it taking people to Cuba for medical treatment that’s the problem or making a commercial film about it, especially without prior authorization?
BUZZ:
Both, I’d imagine, since Moore no doubt PAID for the medical treatment, and it’s a trade embargo as much as anything, if I understand.
And it occurred to me that if Moore DID actually pay for the
treatment for these folks down there, would that not pretty much contradict his entire point about the Cuban health care system, to start with?
I mean, if you’re trying to prove that socialized healthcare is superior because it’s “free"… then how does paying for it prove that, exactly?
Wouldn’t that raise potentially damning questions about why you had to pay for it?
So, is there anyone here who has the necessary saavy to find out whether or not Moore paid for this treatment?
Because, if so, that would be a big “gotcha” as far as I’m concerned.
Hell… if he’s so determined to bring attention to this visit, then let’s give him that attention; scrutinizing, detailed attention.
I think you’ve got your quotes flip-flopped, artmonkey, not that it’s a big deal, heh.
But it would seem to me that he would have to have paid, unless Castro was in on the deal (as he likely was). I mean, Canada’s got “free” health care, too, but I kinda doubt that means I can just drive down there and walk into a Canadian hospital and say “Gimme free medical treatment.”
It’s too bad they just didn’t take care of the first responders to begin with. 9/11 was only the single most important event of the 21st century. The neo conservatives & democrats alike whored the first reponders as ‘heros’ while ignoring their health needs. It’s pretty shameless.
Also, all movies have test screenings. It’s totally plausible for phelps to have seen it.
I had a chance to see an early cut of the film in Michigan the week before Easter. We all agreed to not speak about the film and all compleated forms saying we would not talk about its content. I am a man of my word so I will keep my promise but I always like to get a feel of what others think. That is why I have been visiting this site. Personaly I feel that Moore has presented his past arguments in a one sided fashion so I do see why this site has a large following. Just to be clear with all of you I do support some form of universal health care but I always agree that we should be ok in dissagreeing with each other. I promise I will not insult any of you or use profane words in any of my posts. As for info on Cuba I have little that I can be certain in providing you but I have done research on health care in Europe and North America as an undergrad at the University of Michigan, Flint. What I did see in the film is correct, but it is not a large case study that covers everything one would need to know to make policy recomendations. It is a film that will strike peoples emotions because it deals with an issue that everyone can relate to. Everyone knows someone who had insurance and lost it while they were ill or could not get the surgery or medicine they needed to be healthy. This movie will appeal to many more people for that reason not because Moore had a change in format or style. The film did however have a slightly different feel to it than normal. Usually I can pick out things in the film that will be looked at as false or be attacked by opposition, but this film was mostly free from that because I know that much of what I viewed I had looked at before in class or had researched. I would like to comment about Cuba but again I am restricted in what I can say. What I can say is that most everything that will be contested in this film are the issues that are already being argued about in the larger debate on health care. Maybe after it comes out in theaters we can talk about what I want to add to this but can’t.
What I did see in the film is correct, but it is not a large case study that covers everything one would need to know to make policy recomendations.
So in other words, he again presents a one-sided view with things that are possibly “technically” correct and then makes excuses for doing so by claiming “Well it’s not intended to be comprehensive!” or “It’s just my opinion!” and so on.
Well, thanks for confirming it’s like his other stuff.
But it would seem to me that he would have to have paid, unless Castro was in on the deal (as he likely was). I mean, Canada’s got “free” health care, too, but I kinda doubt that means I can just drive down there and walk into a Canadian hospital and say “Gimme free medical treatment.”
But that’s essentially the basis for the point Moore took those patients there to start with, no?
He was not trying to illustrate that the actual service is better in Cuba. (How could he, possibly? You might as well argue the merits of an ‘81 Citroen over a McLaren.)
He brought them there to make a point about the merits of a state-funded, socialized healthcare system.
So how does that argument work, while you’re shelling out hard cash for a guy wearing overalls under his lab coat, who’s smoking a fat stogie as he lays you down on his bloodstained, solid pine examination table? (which doubles as a butcher’s block for his day job of beheading chickens.)
In what way does paying for some of the worst 3rd-world medicine on the planet give you (Moore) the moral soapbox to wag your finger at the American system from, exactly?
Hi,
I’m Chris from moorelies.com
I sympathize with your situation, and I know that even a dollar makes a difference when life seems to be throwing everything it has at you. If Moore was behind it, it’s clear he had an alterior motive than to trully help out someone in need. But at the end of the day, it’s your family that matters. So what if Moore hooked you into one of his schemes? Big deal. You were able to pay the bills and support your family, that’s what matters. If Moore calls, thank him for the cash and remind him that you still think his political views are wrong… then hang up. Nothing more needs to be said.
Take care of yourself
phelps - I hope you stay around when the film opens and your NDA is no longer in effect. I think you might just add something to our discussions here.
Chris: Much thanks. And of course I agree 100%. :)
Everyone, in fact - thank you. I very much appreciate how you peeps all gots mah back. :)
Just to be clear with all of you I do support some form of universal health care
What form?
Would you mind expounding on a few benefits of that form?
It’s too bad they just didn’t take care of the first responders to begin with.
Who’s “they”?
That doesn’t include you I suppose?
Is there some reason you didn’t take care of them?
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Jim,
This is unfruckingbelievable.
If it was Moore, he might as well pay your next years premiums too. Moorewatch has added so much to the debate ( and put money in Moore’s pocket) he should consider this website one of his greatest successes.
If the donor was indeed Michael Moore, well, he might have done it for the wrong reasons, or for spite,( or maybe for a momentary temporary insanity in the for of kindness) but we’re glad you were able to get a leg up anyway. Hopefully Mrs. JimK is doing better than last year.