Because they’re not misusing his work?

That article is pretty hard to understand. I have no clue who is talking in the 2 bottom quotes, and the first one doesn’t even have an ending apostrophe :\.

I guess they’re quotes from the video :p.

Because they’re not misusing his work?

GOLD.  Buzzion for the win.  :)

Well, we got to the bottom of that one. Now what?

That article is pretty hard to understand. I have no clue who is talking in the 2 bottom quotes, and the first one doesn’t even have an ending apostrophe :\.

That’s because the writer was using one quote and following Standard English rules.

In a long quote you put starting quote marks at the beginning, and repeat them before each paragraph, then when you reach the end of the quote you put the closing quote marks in place.

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000926.html

opps, ^^^^ Priceless.

Moore has made plenty of money off of American blood being spilt, why would he complain?

He is too busy self-promoting his BS as text-book quality truth to care about the “incorrect” use of his works. Look at his website today, calling to arms his supporters to call American Airlines and harass them because they will not show his works in flight. These two items go hand in hand. Yet, he chooses to assail an airline for not showing his crap instead of addressing “why would they come to this conclusion?”

Sorry for being off-topic, but I saw this over at Break.com:
http://break.com/index/adventures_of_lil_george_bush.html
Even though it makes fun of the Bush administration, it’s still pretty funny!

why would there be an outrage, i thought it was patriotic to dissent.  Moore and the like-minded terrorits are just being patriotic ....(man they must really LOVE the USA)

If it is patriotic to dissent, then Moore must be the best American ever!

Dammit, we forgot, our Right Wing Conspiracy mind control satellites don’t work if there’s no mind to control. We’ll just have to kill DiamondsAreMyFriend…

Forgive me, but did you ever consider for a moment, that this is Western-made propaganda posing as Anti-Amercian propaganda - killing two birds with one stone by attaching ‘death squads’ with Moore’s name and pissing off the Western world at the same time?

Not seriously. Did you ever consider that Moore himself may in fact be some sort of hairless sloth? Or, that I might be Michael Moore? No? Why not? No evidence right? Any of the above may be true, but since there’s no evidence of the more complicated claims, the simplest explanations-- that the video is not some kind of double propaganda, that Moore is just some fat guy and that I am not Micheal Moore--are probably correct.  Congratulations. You’re now familiar with Occam’s Razor.

(Any of our history books dating to the 6th grade teach us that propaganda is half of any significant war’s battle).
I also think it’s interesting how the neo-cons are using the ‘toil foil hat’ rhetoric by claiming that it’s “Orwellian-thinking” to be againt the neo-con agenda. Rumsfeld himself said that a couple of weeks back.
They are getting really desperate.

Desperate no. Irritated yes. At any rate I was calling you lunatics tin foil hat types years ago.

There’s a reason that these films are reported with the disclaimer:
“It was not possible to verify when the documentary was made or the authenticity of any of the images portrayed by Rashedeen, whose name means Army of the Rightly Guided.”

I don’t know what you think that says, but what it really says is that there’s no way to tell when the video was made or if any of the images are fake. Nothing more.

I also enjoy the translation to “Army of the Rightly Guided”. Ironic.

No it’s not. Fuel for a stupid pun maybe, but not ironic. “Right” as in rightly guided and “right” as in Rightwing mean two entirely different things.

By the way, I was thinking about you the other day. I was doing some reading, and it turns out there were several hundred gallons of jet fuel in WTC7 for the purpose of powering a generator. Not really relevant to anything, but even so: Wrong again moonbat!

Forgive me, but did you ever consider for a moment, that this is Western-made propaganda posing as Anti-Amercian propaganda

No, I certainly didn’t.  And you’re not forgiven.

It simultaneously amazes and sickens me how many people persist in asserting these pseudo-intellectual bullshit conspiracy theories despite the mountains of evidence pointing to the contrary.  How many times do the Jihadists have to scream their intent and desires from the proverbial mountaintop?  Based on recent history alone, give us one solid reason why we should ignore the massive precedent set forth by every documented Islamist atrocity and instead buy into your Moveon.org-style prepackaged conspiracy theory?

There’s a reason that these films are reported with the disclaimer:

Give me a break.  I guess everytime I find old family photos without time and date stamps I should dismiss the most logical explanation for the presumed time & place the photos were taken and instead assume the most sinister scenarios, right?  Not everything has to be a big, bad neo-con conspiracy, Diamonds.

(Any of our history books dating to the 6th grade teach us that propaganda is half of any significant war’s battle).

Indeed it is.  Looks like you’re buying into a heaping dose of it, too.  You DO realize that propaganda goes both ways, don’t you?

LINK to see for yourself:
http://www.armedforcesjournal.com/2006/06/1833899

I can’t wait to hear your justification for this…
We would never be able to get away with this type of thinking without 9/11… again, look it up.

From the website’s “About us” page via the link on top:

Armed Forces Journal and its Web site, armedforcesjournal.com, are published by Army Times Publishing Company, a part of Gannett Company, Inc., and the world’s largest publisher of professional military and defense periodicals, with a strong heritage and tradition of meeting the highest standards of independent journalism. Since its inception in 1940, the company has expanded with distinct publications serving all branches of the U.S. military, the global defense community, the U.S. federal government, and several special-interest defense-oriented industry sectors.

Why exactly would any of us have to justify the ramblings of a private company none of us, presumably, are affiliated with?

I"m just asking you to maintain an open mind.

Diamonds, did it ever occur to you that having an open mind doesn’t mean you have to entertain every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike?  In other words, there’s a difference between the possible and the highly improbable.

Verm-
1) I’ll ignore your first comment about the whole sloth rant. It was incomprehensible to me. I"m just asking you to maintain an open mind.

That’s because you aren’t very smart. Look up Occam’s Razor. As a matter of fact, it would do you a lot of good to read a book on logic or critical thinking. It would do me a lot of good if you read a book on logic or critical thinking.
Did you seriously just accuse me of incomprehensibility? Really?

2) Based on your rant involving proof… irritated absolutely… extremely irritated. Desperate I’m sure. That’s just me.

Wait, I though we were ignoring that part.

3) It’s too am also saying there’s no way to say that the entire video wasn’t created as an extra-credit-muslim-for-space-shuttle-ride-studies-if you-can-successfully-shake-the-neo-cons… or an actual Iraqi organization that made it, or a moon-bat himself (like me!).. or, hey Moore might have even made it to boost his publicity.

No, it doesn’t say that, it simply doesn’t say anything to the contrary. There’s a difference. It may very well be a…whatever-the-hell-it-was-you-just-said, but the fact that it has a disclaimer saying there’s no way to know what it is for sure that it is one thing does not constitute evidence that it is anything else.

“It’s too am” What the hell does that mean? It’s 2 in the morning where you are? Go to sleep. What the hell are you talking about?

4) Ur right. It’s just an Ironic pun. nothing more.  “Army of the Rightly Guided” is a total coincidence. Sure. There’s no proof to say otherwise.

It’s not an ironic pun. It’s a stupid pun, at best.

I’m not sure if you saw my final post - or if it made it past the"crash" or whatever happened here...(cough… NS..a.. argh!) (Naw… not yet.) But I stated that arguing about the events of 9/11 and whether or not it was western-gov’t sponsored, and WTC7 was taken down by the US on purpose, etc etc until we are blue-in-the-face is proving pointless at this stage. It’s like tryng to teach a color-blind person the difference between green and red.

No, what you’re doing is like trying to convince a rational person with perfect vision that red is left.

Let me ask you on a temporary side-note… this article is directly related to the events of 9/11 as none of this planning would be happening without 9/11 (please refer to the ‘New Amercian Century’ if you aren’t familiar with what I mean). But, please, you or anyone in here please tell me how you justify statements made by the ‘Armed Forces Journal’ such as:

Look, I don’t know what you think any of that means. We’ve been over this before; you can’t just quote something and expect everyone to accept that it supports your claim.

PS See if you can refrain from name-calling as a tactic, because it isn’t a tactic at all, sure it works on the average Amercian people from it’s gov’t… but it does no good - just makes you comes across like an arrogant close-minded jackass. And I know the last thing you want to be compared to is a jackass, me either. Whew!

Actually, if you recall, you initiated the name calling, and the last thing I would want to be called is a liberal, not a jackass. At any rate, it’s not looking good. I think I’m going to have to keep calling you names.

John:
Your ‘president’ and ‘defense sec’ follows this ideology. thats what justifies it.

You can’t use the words of a private entity with no proven evidence of connction to a person as evidenc of the beliefs of that person.

What relevance does the statement of a private company with no connection to them have to do with the beliefs or plans of either Bush or Rummy?

Your ‘president’ and ‘defense sec’ follows this ideology. thats what justifies it.

None of what you posted has anything to do with an ideology.

The reality is, the ‘official story’ to many is the real conspircacy story…

We’ve been through this before too. Just because someone believes something doesn’t make it true.

I feel like I’m trying to teach a monkey how to golf.

Does anyone in here want to have a rational constructive conversation about these issues?

Yes.  Care to respond to any earlier questions?  And what exactly would you know about ‘rational’ and ‘constructive’ conversations?  Reading your commentary on here these last few weeks has made it abundantly clear you are thoroughly divorced from reality.

I’m not here to fight, but have reasonable debate and speak reasonably about what is going on right now.

Fair enough.  But don’t expect others to entertain your infantile conspiracy theories as if they somehow deserve to inhabit the realm of legitimate discourse.  You’re more than entitled to spew your propaganda, but don’t act appalled when others call you on your bullshit.  You were thoroughly trounced on the WTC thread a few weeks back...after being flooded with facts and logic not to your liking, yet you still expect people to believe you’re a rational and constructive person????

and I think it’s important for us all as Amercians to share our feelings about it without being total bigoted assholes about it.

Typical liberal cop-out.  So anyone who disagrees with you is a bigot?  Point me out on example of anyone being bigoted here.  Are people being smart-asses to you here?  Certainly...but you should expect that when you insist on spewing your conspiratorial garbage.

I, and many others, have repeatedly pointed out the flaws in your position. It’s become repetitive. I am not making an defense. Now I’m just making fun of you.

WTC 7 contained, among other things, an emergency diesel generator, the tank of which was at least partially full. It also contained an electric substation and a four inch gas line.

Which of the above facts would you like to dispute?

So, all of these people, that you will see on the news Monday night… all of these people: they are all just looney tunes? They are all crazy? They have nothing better to do? Why are these people doing this? Lack of medication? Can’t wait to hear this one from you.

Yes. Some combination of the above. So are the members of the flat earth society, holocaust deniers, moon hoax believers, religious fundamentalists and anyone else who doesn’t understand the difference between fact and belief.

More like trying to teach a monkey to have conjugal relations with a football…

I just want to know what the Shadow Bankers are going to do with all of this power. Maybe Diamonds can tell us. What exactly are we being controlled into doing?

I’d like to dispute your point about JET FUEL… oh, I mean wait did you just now say Deisel Fuel?

Not my point, but for what it’s worth, Jet-A and diesel fuel are very similar fuels.  I used to work for a company that chartered private jets.  Our ramp guys ran our older diesel trucks on Jet-A.  Probably not 100% manufacturer-approved, but it did work.

Try turning over a new leaf; don’t be so cocky when you clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Your Holocasut deniers lie within your famed Neo-Con gov’t.

Oh really?  I thought the neo-cons were in bed with the “Israeli lobby”, hence their unabashed support for Israel?  Care to pull some mental gymnastics and rationalize this point of yours?  Can’t have it both ways, Diamonds.

More like trying to teach a monkey to have conjugal relations with a football…

I think that still might be more productive than attempting to do ANYTHING with Diamond-boy there.

First off all, you peon, jet fuel is diesel fuel. Secondly, are you honestly going to argue with me about weather or not WTC7 had a generator? You do realize that Rudi Gulliani’s emergency bunker was located there, along with a number of other government offices, right? Do you really think that Gulliani’s emergency plan contained a provision which required him to retreat to his emergency bunker which had no source of power? In fact, how about this, you go find me a modern skyscraper that doesn’t have a backup source of power.

Did you read what you posted? It explains what is wrong with your position better than I have. You can take any event and even if you know exactly what happened, make up an alternative explanation for it. The difference is the event that actually happened will have evidence supporting it, and doesn’t usually require a bunch of unsubstantiated assumptions to make sense.

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they are often internally consistent, that is, if all of their premises are true, the theory is logically sound. The problem is, with your theory especially, the premises the argument is based on are not supported by fact. The are just things that you choose to believe. In the case that one of a conspriacy theory’s premises is shown to be not supported by evidence, conspiracy theorists either claim that the evidence is wrong or forged, simply ignore it, or make up yet another set of premises to explain why the original premise is actually true, even though the evidence indicates that it is false. You and the other people who believe your theory lack the technical knowhow to determine what is or is not true. You, for example, don’t know that jet fuel and diesel fuel are the same thing, yet you feel qualified to dispute the findings of people who study and practice physics, chemistry and engineering, among other things, for a living.

The bottom line is your position is based on belief rather than fact. If you want others to accept it you have to support it with fact. You have been given multiple opportunities to do so, but can’t.

For clarity, I was calling Diamonds and not Whoa Buddy a peon. The difference between jet-A and the diesel fuel you buy at the pump is a matter of additives. Certain fuels are formulated for use in different storage conditions, climates, etc. But yes you can run a truck on jet-a or fire up a Lear with the crap from the truck stop. I changed the phrasing from jet diesel on purpose, hoping that diamonds would reveal his ignorance of yet another subject. I was using stra-teeg-ery.
Being strategeristic.

I changed the phrasing from jet diesel on purpose

Obviously I meant “jet to diesel”. My apologies.

Your Holocasut deniers lie within your famed Neo-Con gov’t.

Oh really?  I thought the neo-cons were in bed with the “Israeli lobby”, hence their unabashed support for Israel?  Care to pull some mental gymnastics and rationalize this point of yours?  Can’t have it both ways, Diamonds.

Maybe we’re all anti-semitic because we resent our Hebrew masters.

Oh so please… Vermin, gimme a link to this JET FUEL/WTC7 article you found

You know, this would be so much easier if you would just realize that everyone knows more about everything than you do.

Or, you could educate yourself and learn not only how to think logically, but acquire enough information to form educated opinions.

Whatever, I found it for you. It’s on page xlvii of section 1-1 of the NIST document “Federal Building and Fire Safety Inspector Investigation of the World Trade Center Disaster”, under the heading: Fuel Systems for Emergency Generators in WTC7 (and about six hundred other places in the same document and any number of other documents by people who investigage things like building collapses). Here it is: http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/fire05/PDF/f05119.pdf

It took me and google .00015 seconds to find, next time do it yourself so you don’t come off sounding ignorant.

"It should be fun to see him [Bush] try to take down the 22nd amendment and how you all justify it.

Obviously, that’s a big part of the overall plan detailed in the NEW AMERICAN CENTURY.

One thing I can tell you, Diamonds . . . when we take over the world, people like you will have very limited access to the Internet.  It will be for your own good . . . trust me.

OK, Diamonds, let’s do this - to which conspiracy theories do you subscribe?  Please answer the following so we can rip them apart piece by piece.

1) What crashed into the WTC towers?
2) What crashed into the Pentagon?  And if not Flight 77, where is it and its passengers?
3) What made the WTC towers collapse?  Please include WTC7 in your answer.
4) If you believe airplanes were involved, what made them crash into buildings?
5) Where is Flight 93?
6) Approximately how many people were involved in this conspiracy?  And why have none of them talked?

I’m going to try to guess your responses…

1) You’ll either say two airplanes, or if you’re with the nuttier-than-nutty crowd, they were missiles (the live footage of two planes colliding with the towers was manufactured by the gov’t).
2) A missile, of course.  Flight 77 never existed - or - it landed somewhere and its passengers were all rounded up and killed by government operatives.
3) They had been wired with explosives in the weeks before the attack, then detonated shortly after the airplanes/missiles impacted so as to cause the buildings to collapse with maximum loss of life.
4) They were taken over by remote control.  There were no terrorists.
5) It landed in Ohio, then all its passengers were rounded up and executed after being forced to make calls to loved ones on their cell phones.
6) They were all (every last one) killed by the gov’t.

How close was I?

Diamonds,

Along voiceofreason’s line of questioning, do you remember a fellow named Ted Olson?  He was the Solicitor General who argued for Bush before the Supreme Court in the Bush versus Gore election case.  His wife was Barbara Olson who was a conservative commentator for CNN.

The offical story is that Barbara Olson was aboard American Airlines Flight 77 and was killed when that jet hit the Pentagon on her husband’s birthday.  What is your version of the story?  What really happened to Barbara Olson?

Buzz-

Perhaps she was one Republican that didn’t get the message not to fly on 9/11 - because the gov’t told a lot of people it wasn’t safe to fly that day...right, anyway…

I’ve just recently gotten interested in this 9/11 conspiracy debunking, and some of things these conspiracy theorists are saying, and getting away with saying, is making my blood boil.  I really think there’s no convincing them otherwise, but maybe we can wise-up Diamond.

I think so many people have such an utter hatred and distrust for Bush, it is driving them to paranoia, and this is their outlet.  There are no conspiracy theories about the first WTC bombing, the USS Cole, Khobar towers, etc (all of which happened under Clinton).

I’ve just recently gotten interested in this 9/11 conspiracy debunking, and some of things these conspiracy theorists are saying, and getting away with saying, is making my blood boil.

I know not everyone here is a fan of this guy, but I think he does a pretty good job lampooning some of these conspiracy imbeciles.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=911_morons

I’ve just recently gotten interested in this 9/11 conspiracy debunking . . .

Voice,

Then consider this:

Like all those who engage in the phenomena known as conspiracism, Diamonds had already developed an unhealthy case of paranoia.  Therefore, his distrust of any and all authority is based entirely on what is known as conformation bias.  That means he tends to interpret information in a way that confirms his silly notions never understanding that confirmation bias can only lead to logical fallacies.  By combining logical fallacies with a complete lack of real evidence he form biased opinions largely based on psuedo-science and the like.  Then, he solidifies his opinion using communal reinforcement by pointing out that virtually every other person on the planet that is afflicted with a bad case of conspiracism believes what he believes.  In other words, he seeks reinforcement from a community of disturbed individuals who also deal solely in confirmation bias, and all the while he thinks this support is meaningful.

Normally, most people dealing in this realm would suffer from cognitive dissonance.  To avoid this Diamonds uses rationalizations to make things fit his view.  This is why Diamonds cannot embrace objectivity.  In others words, Diamonds cannot step back and and ask himself the very questions that would lead him away from his bias.  Of course, as Vermin has so astutely pointed out, at every turn Diamonds violates Occam’s Razor.  Now, you can violate this principle and still have a valid argument, but a rational person cannot violate it countless times and still hold that their reasoning is sound.

Now, take what Diamonds said about the 22nd Amendment.  He implied that Bush and Company are going to try to get the 22nd repealed so they can stay in power indefinately.  He also implied that Bundy, Vermin, Rann, JohnReb, etc. would try and rationalize this effort as something good for America.  This is all part of the New American Century . . . or his interpretation thereof.  What is basing that on?  Where did he get this notion?

It comes from paranoia . . . the same place the 9-11 Conspiracy come from.  And it has to be true because it just has to be true!  Otherwise, he would have to come to the conclusion that he’s just paranoid.  See how this works?

I heard this rumor about the repeal of the 22nd amendment about 1-2 yrs ago.  The version i heard was a deal between dems and reps that would allow Arnold Schwartzaneggar to run for president as long as clinton could run for a thrid time.  I dismissed this as a rumor.

I heard what really took down WTC7 was Jet Li!
I think he could take Chuck Norris and Jack Bauer.

For Diamonds, here is the Real Truth!

So wait, was it Jet Li, or was it Diesel Li?

It was Jet Li in conjunction with Vin Diesel.
They work for the gov’t and both their careers took off right after this. This is the only plausible way to explain at least Vin Diesel’s success.
If you look in the rubble piles of WTC7, you can see chinese characters and xxx in the debris.
They are also listed on the flight manifest for all the planes that flew that day.
Will anyone check my facts? I think not!
Coincidence? I think not!
Who the hell is Occam and why doesn’t he switch to an electric razor? :lol:
Surely Diamonds can see that.

It was Jet Li in conjunction with Vin Diesel.

I dunno about a conspiracy theory, but I would so go see that movie.

Looks like our misguided friend Diamonds has perpetrated another drive-by sniping.  Typical. 

Just continue ignoring the mountains of evidence with that “open mind” of yours, Diamonds. 

Sad, sad times we live in.

I dunno about a conspiracy theory, but I would so go see that movie.

:lol:
Me too. I was a little harsh on Vin but I really don’t believe anything I wrote in that post anyway.
Except maybe the part about the deadly bunny slippers.

Wow.  The Time article certainly got one thing very correct.  Conspiracy theorists do live in their own little world.

I feel I owe an apology to everyone on Moorewatch.  When I first read some of Diamond’s initial posts on this site, I thought (hoped?) that he/she would prove to be reasonable.  After that last post, however, all possible hopes crumbled.  I apologize for my hopeful naivete.

You people are at least paying attention, it’s a start.

No we’re not, you idiot, we’re mocking you.

And before you start whining about name-calling and not being taken seriously and all that, consider… in all the times that someone has attempted to do you even the slightest courtesy and reply civilly to your nonsense, has it made ANY difference? Have you budged from your own unsupported position even one iota? Have you even briefly entertained the fact that you might be wrong?

Because somehow I’m thinking not.

People like you may whine up a storm about wanting to be seriously debated, but in the end it boils down to exactly the same result as if we’d lobbed an insult and ignored you, because your opinion will still be the same, both on the subject and of us, because we didn’t listen to you.

So I’d rather just save myself the time and call you a fucking moron.