And as usual, what do the posters center on?

Him.

Again, we’re not being presented so much with a documentary about the subject than a really long video blog of Michael Moore as he states his views about the subject.

My wife and I were at the doctor’s office just this afternoon.  Our total time in the waiting room was maybe ten minutes.

But that is probably less relevant than Moore’s True Facts (tm) as presented in the film.  JimK, please return to this post later, and replace “ten minutes” with whatever length of time Moore specifies in his film, when showing babies and old people dying in the waiting room.

And as a sidebar:

“What seems to be the problem?”

uh… you’re fat?

Also… people dying in a waiting room… ... isn’t that basically what we’ve been saying about Canada/France/etc.?

I think the poster on the left is going to give me nightmares.  :(

First off, I have to say that this is the last place I would have thought to have heard a remark like this. My question is this: Does Michael Moore think America is a Christian nation? He knows that it isn’t, right? I can’t really tell by listening to the press conference. Although I am no fan of Michael Moore, I don’t like to assume anything about anyone. I do hope some reporter will ask him to clarify this part…

“Speaking frankly about everything from his process to the nature of American society ("People like to refer to the United States as a ‘Christian’ nation; I’d like to see that. ...") [Source: cinematical]

Man, these posters are so blatantly Photoshopped, its painful.

Somebody hire the man a decent graphic designer. Or is he really that much of a cheapskate?

Once, in the United States, I waited 43 days between the day it was confirmed that my foot was broken and the day it was actually treated (actually, despite the fact that I was working in the very hospital in which I was awaiting treatment, my foot was never treated. I declared myself better before the appointment date arrived and didn’t go). Of course, that was at a Naval Hospital. You know, a socialized system, run by the government.

Ouch. That disgusting thing you smell is Vermin giving Moore a wicked burn.

Owned? Literally, or more of that new-fangled slang?

Nobody can own anybody in the US; slavery was made illegal via the Emancipation Proclamation. So, therefore, I assume you mean the figurative one.

In which case, all I have to say is this: Moore doesn’t own anybody other than people like j00!!11!!1!

I thought the one on the left was at least semi-comical.  One on the right is pretty pedestrian.  Rann, really what are you expecting?  Every Moore docu-film has himself being the main focus of the marketing for the particular movie.  Roger and Me, The Big One, etc.  You are expecting too much out of new documentaries.  Obviously, Michael Moore’s face is recognizable, and hence will put more butts in the seats than a simple focus on healthcare alone from a publicity standpoint.  This isn’t unique to Moore.  Look at Morgan Spurlock, his face was on Supersize Me and no one even knew who he was prior to the film.  Al Gore was a huge selling point behind An Inconvient Truth.  People are naturally attracted to a given film like these opinionated documentaries if there is a face you can attach to them.  Moore, in every one of his films, makes some interesting points and then goes overboard with them.  I watch his films with a skeptical eye, and you come out knowing that often he is just as manipulative as many people he seeks to expose, which is, I believe, a unique moviegoing experience.

“Speaking frankly about everything from his process to the nature of American society ("People like to refer to the United States as a ‘Christian’ nation; I’d like to see that. ...")

It is a Christian nation, founded on the principles of freedom and equality.  That does not mean that because Christians should be charitable people who give of themselves for the benefit of others, that a Christian nation should be a charitable government body who gives of itself for the benefit of others.

One reason for this is that the government has virtually nothing of its own.  Its body rules at the consent of the governed and its various departments are formed under the auspices of those same voters.  Therefore whatever it gives charitably is not something it owns, but something it appropriated from the people.  This is doubly true now that income tax is the primary source of government revenue, and not other avenues such as tariffs.

The other reason is that any function performed by the government that is not specific to the defense and maintenance of the country is by default doing so to the detriment of the citizens’ personal freedoms.  Depriving people of their land, their goods, their money, deprives them also of a portion of their freedoms, and as I said, the government appropriates from the people to run its programs.

It is entirely Christian for a person to give of himself for the benefit of another.  It is not Christian for a body of people to take something from one person to give to another.  The euphemism for that is “robbing Peter to pay Paul” and the last I heard, it was not something to be viewed favorably.

Jim— Looks like you’ve posted two big pictures of the guy who bailed you out of a hole.  How does it feel to be TOTALLY OWNED by your nemesis?

Totally owned?  Jim has insurance, and had it prior to Moore’s donation.  He stated this explicitly.  Jim’s wife has received every ounce of care that she required.  He has also stated this explicitly.  Moore’s donation made the difference between having this website and not having this website.  The website is a hobby and a public service, and is in no way critical to the well being of the Kennefiennengingick [sic] household.

So in what way, exactly, did Moore “own” Jim?

So in what way, exactly, did Moore “own” Jim?

I would question how a regular guy like Jim, with nothing but a “stupid website” got into the head of a multi-millionaire like Moore. Seriously, in the scheme of things, Moore with his 120 million dollar box office take from F9-11, he could have easily ignored Moorewatch altogether.

I mean, if Moorewatch is irrelevant and useless like the Moorefans would describe it, and Moore watching is mere folly, the fact that Moore involved Jim in this movie is nothing more than validation that this site is indeed adding to the debate and the lack of relevance and stupidity of this site is negated.

To those of you who were not here two years ago, this site did much to shape the discussion of Moore’s movies, in fact , Moore dedicated several pages on his website to “debunking the debunkers”. He was referring to us.

It is a Christian nation

No it’s not. http://tinyurl.com/gj4u4

"Jim— Looks like you’ve posted two big pictures of the guy who bailed you out of a hole.  How does it feel to be TOTALLY OWNED by your nemesis?

Avalon”

Dig a little deeper into this obviously juvenile post, and you get a painful reminder of how apathetic and shallow a lot of people seem to be.

This isn’t a game of HALO. In case nitwits like you, Avalon, don’t realize it, this is the actual lives of actual human beings that you are reducing to nothing more than a score of some stupid video game. I saw a post on another thread that reminded me of this one, where the person wrote “Micheal Moore 1, JimK 0” as if we were talking about a hockey game. Regardless of how unfair and manipulative Michael Moore is, there’s no getting around the fact that health care is a serious issue. Jim’s wife was very sick. Not in a video game. In REAL LIFE. Jim had actual, real, three-dimensional problems that don’t go away when the HALO server goes down. There are people suffering, and they deserve a little more regard than your useless, gloating gibberish gives them.

If you have something constructive to add to our conversation, please do so. If you just want to say “Ha Ha! HEAD SHOT! I PWNED YOU” or whatever inspid remark you spew after your pathetic daydream video game heroics, please keep them to yourself. The rest of us don’t get our tans from the load screen of World of Warcraft.

I really don’t care what Level Magic-User you are, or how many games of Capture the Flag you won with your Unreal Tournament Crew. That doesn’t make you any less an empty-headed, juvenile pretender.

The website Moorewatch.com posted newsworthy images of the focus of the site.

Of COURSE that means we’ve been pwned!  Ah-DUH!  What’s wrong with you people?

:D

Also… people dying in a waiting room… ... isn’t that basically what we’ve been saying about Canada/France/etc.?

You took the words out of my mouth.

Skeletons in a waiting room is the most apropos poster for socialized medicine I can think of.

Avalon,

As has been mentioned time and time and time again...the cash came from an anonymous source...Moore only later reviled himself when the movie was going to premeir.

You seem to be defending Moore’s ethics for being decietful.

Jim K will forever be known as the moorewatch guy who Moore bailed out when Jim came to his readers, hat-in-hand, to ask for assistance for his wife.

Avalon, go back and read the related posts. Jim never asked for money to help pay his insurance premiums. Long before that, he asked for advice on companies who offered health insurance for people who did not get coverage through thier employer.

Jim never asked for money for this. The money was Moore’s idea, and now we know his idea was to give money to Jim as part of making his (Moore’s) point about the state of health care in America.

I think it’s a testament to Moorewatch that a bunch of “nobodies” could get the attentiuon of a big star like Moore, and make him change his strategy to include trying to embarrass one of the owners.

That’s the score I see.

w0rf:
It is a Christian nation

tinypoet:
No it’s not. http://stupidlinkthatmissesthepoint.com

Yes it is.  It is a nation founded on Christian principles, including the freedom to choose ye this day whom ye will serve.  What it is not, is a Christian THEOCRACY.

Learn the difference before responding again, please and thank you.

Avalon:
Jim K will forever be known as the moorewatch guy who Moore bailed out when Jim came to his readers, hat-in-hand, to ask for assistance for his wife.

Jim never asked for cash and his wife was in no danger of being denied treatment.  Please learn to read.

Jim K spends hours and hours maintaining an anti-Moore site, and when he’s hardup for cash, asks his readers for help.

Jim never asked for cash and his wife was in no danger of being denied treatment.  Please learn to read.

I would say that Jim is asking for assistance here, assistance in finding a good insurance company, not financial assistance. Wouldn’t you agree?

Of course he agrees, he is dispelling your faulty notion of Jim having a “hat in hand”.  If that phrase is not intended to imply a request for financial assistance, then no such phrase must exist in the English language.  The imagery is clear.  Further:

It’s time Jim became a real man, get a real job and take care of his wife.

Clearly a reference to money, which Jim has never requested.  Don’t change tracks in mid-discussion and pretend that you never meant to imply this.  It’s intellectually dishonest.

Jim was convinced the money was coming from Moore, but spent every last dime of it anyhow.  So all of Jim’s “holier-than-Moore” diatribes over the past two years now ring hollow and insincere.  He has become the height of hypocrisy.

In what way is this hypocrisy?  Jim’s acceptance of the money is consistent with his philosophy of people taking care of each other without government meddling, whereas Moore’s hypocrisy stems from his capitalistic ventures arising from his socialist diatribes.  You need to look up hypocrisy in the dictionary before you start throwing around big-boy words.

Avalon - Acting like you are offended by people being hostile towards you and then saying things like Jim’s wife needs a better man?

My god. You are a disgrace to trolling. Go study up on it.

Avalon:

Why don’t you educate yourself, go back, and read EVERYTHING about this issue.  You seem to be cherry-picking bits and pieces of it in order to support your moronic little thesis.  How about actually letting the notion pass through your head that Mikey pulled the wool over your eyes?  Eh?  Or is it so hard to fathom your Great Leader actually lied to you?  About Jim, and about everything else?

I might also add to this discussion that it’s intellectually dishonest to selectively cull sentences out of an entire written communication to try and prove the unprovable.  Avalon is taking Jim’s words out of context.  My observation of late has been that people who do this are incapable of understanding concepts that take more than half a paragraph to explain.

Avalon - before I ban you for your NON-STOP personal attacks on me, I’d like to let you know - I AM TURNING DOWN ALL MEDIA.  I will do one show and one show only, and I won’t be doing (or saying which) that one for awhile.  If ever.

So, you know...go fuck yourself.

w0rf - My, my aren’t you the arrogant one. As far as me responding again - no worries there: “I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.” After this post, I won’t be back. Best of luck to everyone here - may all you do be returned threefold.

I love it how people turn up, get the shits, and then leave after having the last words.

“I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent.”

Member Local Time May 22, 2007 11:14 AM
Last Visit May 22, 2007 05:43 PM
Join Date May 22, 2007 10:20 AM

hehe ;)

michael jackson, you’re still down newcastle, right?
(not noticed comments from you in a while)

yeah mate, still in newy. you planning on visiting aus again ?

havent been commenting too much , but always reading ;)

Yup, I’m going to be down in Sydney in mid-June through mid to late July

Notwithstanding the trolling idiots, how many hits has Moorewatch had since Mikey went public with the Gotcha gag for Sicko?

It could work against Moore in the long run, if the visitors are reasonable and able to read.

Camkrisand:

Given the crop of visitors so far, by and large, I’d say that is wishful thinking.  In fact, I expect it to get much worse in the coming months.  Most of Moore’s followers can’t stand a critical word said about their Dear Leader.

Firebrand… on the other hand, if you’re looking strictly at his ‘followers’ getting here.... if any of them have support for Moore weakened by this, its a net loss, though. Don’t think Moore is gaining all that many people by this.

Yup, I’m going to be down in Sydney in mid-June through mid to late July

just sent you an email mate. have a good time downunder :)

w0rf - My, my aren’t you the arrogant one.

There is nothing arrogant about correcting your mischaracterization the terminology used in my post.  Arrogance is a display of superiority or self-importance, and there is no superiority for me to have in your being wrong.  It doesn’t make me a better person, it just makes you wrong.

However, after dropping the old “battle of wits with an unarmed opponent” dig, I’m sure going to miss you when you’re gone.  Thanks for sparing me any misgivings I might have had about you being rational and well-reasoned.

JimK....you are promoting Moore’s new film, selling tickets for him...making people curious to see it…

Three cheers for the super-genius!  You don’t miss much, do you?  We’re so glad you came; I don’t think anybody would have surmised that making people aware of something might make them curious to see it, if you hadn’t revealed that gem to us.  Heaven smiles upon you today.

You know, you people disparage Moore fans here as Moore-ons, but the truth is that even the biggest Michael Moore fans do not obsess about him as much or as often as the supporters on this site…

Apparently you haven’t listened to Air America lately.

I’ve probably posted more here in the last two days than I have in the last two years.  So I guess that by my extended absence, yet again, I trump your score on the Who Has the Lowest Loser Index scoreboard.

Do you have anything useful to contribute or are you just going to continue making it about Jim and not about the facts?

So is Avalon banned now? I didn’t even get a chance to respond to his “poor me, I’m a victim of your hostility” post. I guess it’s just as well, though. He wasn’t here to add to the discussion anyway.

What burns me most about the whole health care debate is the notion that we are somehow fundamentally entitled to the services of a doctor. Where is that written?I’m not entitled to the services of a plumber, or an auto mechanic, or an accountant. Why should I be entitled to the services of a doctor? 

Doctors spend many years and thousands of dollars on their education. We expect them to do miracles and never make mistakes, which I believe is an impossible situation to be in. Doctors are terrified of being sued, and they’re passing on their fears to the average person in the form of higher fees.

I’m wondering if Moore casts any stones at smokers or sedentary individuals whose choices have made them obese and unhealthy and still feel that they are entitled to care, or the millions of undocumented people who also feel they are entitled to care. Somehow, I doubt it.

Movie posters are created to promote a film....they are advertising...Posting them here, and then making fun of them does not diminish their promotional power

Experts say his “brilliant” film is “uplifting” and “moving people to tears”. How does that jibe with either film poster?

Should Mooore ever offer a forum at his site we can talk about even-handed dialogue and engaging in reason and dissent crap.

Posted by MajoritySpeaker on 05/22 at 09:07 AM

Here’s a fact for ya Worf:

You’ve averaged about 2 posts per day since you joined this site 3 years ago....With 2,000 postings on this site by you, I’d say the last 3 years of your life have been pretty lean...So, yeah, you’re battling it out with the likes of Sethery in the loser index…

So, finding a forum in which you’re able to participate and share ideas with others is a bad thing?  It’s better to just show up and mock complete strangers about things you know nothing of?  If I knew who you were, would I not find a single forum anywhere on the Internet where you hang out regularly?  Really?  You would have made a great onesie.

Maybe you couldn’t glean this from w0rf’s user statistics, but he has been nigh-absent for at least a year.  That’s one of those things you mocked somebody for without knowing anything about...except that he told you.  Yeah, you’re the clever one.

You’ve averaged about 2 posts per day since you joined this site 3 years ago....With 2,000 postings on this site by you, I’d say the last 3 years of your life have been pretty lean…

Has someone sat you down and had a talk with you about what the word “average” means?  Since you consider your response relevant to what I said, I’m guessing no.

And while I know I’ve beaten your two post a day average, I’ve been here for less than a week, and I wont be here three years from now, whining about a chump like Michael Moore...You, on the other hand, most likely, will be…

What’s the one thing that’s better than being superior to everyone else on the website?  Creating an account here so you can spend time posting and telling people how much better you are!  Hooray for you!

Attempted sarcasm?...nice!

It wasn’t an attempt, it actually was sarcasm.  The “attempt” was to have a reasonable conversation with you, and my mistake was not realizing from the outset that was a lost cause.

But at least you’re admitting that Moorewatch promotes Michael Moores work....add your criticism of his work to that, and Moore still comes out on top…

I am acknoweldging that heightened curiosity is a natural side-effect of heightened awareness.  You were the one who used the ill-conceived term “promotion”.  What sites like this have done is contextualize what Moore would have you view through a narrow, distorted lens.  Whether people see his movie or not is not an end goal of exposing his lies.  Promoting the search for truth and raising the level of discussion, however, is a goal worth pursuing even if there are ancillary benefits for Moore in the short term.

Thank you for validating my point though…

You had a point?  That would be a novelty…

What exacly are the “facts” of the blog post I’m currently responding to Worf?

Is the “blog post you’re currently responding to” the only place you have ever made an entry on this site? (hint: no) If not, then your question removes context from the discussion.  That is intellectually dishonest.  I took umbrage at the full body of your work, not just a single post, and likewise, I refer to facts within the full scope of the website, and not just the ones you like to cherry-pick in order to mischaracterize their efforts.  If the truth was so obviously on your side that you could justify your disgraceful attitude, you wouldn’t have to distort it in order to make your point.

Not too much unlike Moore’s own work.

How is posting Moore’s posters any more promotional than the mere existence of Moorewatch?  I could argue that this website does nothing else but advertise Moore and his films (but I’m not going to make that argument.) I don’t think these posters will sway the Moorewatch regulars to want to see the film, and I’d bet that most of the recently-registered visitors have already determined that they’ll go see Sicko.

Should Mooore ever offer a forum at his site we can talk about even-handed dialogue and engaging in reason and dissent crap.

Moore had a forum at his site.  He took it down rather than respond to all the questions being raised about his “facts”.

Perhaps Majority should consider that fact, and ask himself who is really showing integrity here, when Jim is allowing anyone to register and post, regardless of their view of Moore, and even if their statements are utterly moronic, but Moore has no such intention of inviting criticism.

Majority is far too busy vigorously defending very single aspect about Moore and his work.

I just hope he’s getting paid… but I wouldn’t bet on it.

JimK got $12K from Moore’s camp, the Bunny Lady got $100.

What burns me most about the whole health care debate is the notion that we are somehow fundamentally entitled to the services of a doctor. Where is that written?I’m not entitled to the services of a plumber, or an auto mechanic, or an accountant. Why should I be entitled to the services of a doctor? 

The argument goes something like this, Bel . . . the phrase “Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” is found in the Declaration of Independence.  Supposedly, the Constitution guarantees these rights in various ways.  Supporters of universal healthcare interpret this to mean the Constitution guarantees government should endeavor to protect life against disease and such.

This may not be exactly what they say, but that’s the gest of it.

Why does MajoritySpeaker keep repeating himself? Doesn’t he realize debate relies on the logical rationalization (redundency right there) of arguments, rather than the blind repetition of the same points over and over… and over… and over…

Oh, right. I forgot. This is the internet. Considering the number of posts he has and how long he’s been around, I’ve got one word for him: post-whore.

Hey everyone let’s think like majority.

If you post comments of democrats and criticize their points and demonstrate where they are wrong and what they are doing won’t work, you are in fact endorsing and promoting their position.

If you publish an article about 9/11 truthers, and demonstrate how each of their conspiracy theories are wrong, then you are actually promoting their position.

If you speak out against racism and racist organizations you are in fact promoting racism and bigotry.

What a dipshit.

Actually, I don’t know why you’re laughing your ass off.  What amusement someone could possibly derive in being rude and demeaning towards others is a concept that escapes me entirely.

Posted by MajoritySpeaker on 05/22 at 08:07 AM (Link to this comment)
Here’s a fact for ya Worf:

You’ve averaged about 2 posts per day since you joined this site 3 years ago....With 2,000 postings on this site by you, I’d say the last 3 years of your life have been pretty lean...So, yeah, you’re battling it out with the likes of Sethery in the loser index…

And while I know I’ve beaten your two post a day average, I’ve been here for less than a week, and I wont be here three years from now, whining about a chump like Michael Moore

You’re an idiot. I’m not just saying that to snipe - I truly believe it, based on your speaking authoritatively about something which you obviously don’t understand or know anything about.

If you’d actually bothered to read any of the forum posts from w0rf (which make up around 80% of his total posts here), or even visit the forms at all for that matter, you’d know that the vast majority of threads in the forums have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with Moore. In fact, the forums here have some of the highest quality discussions I’ve seen anywhere on the ‘net, with intelligent, well thought out and written posts from both sides on just about any topic worth mentioning.

So the next time you feel like attacking someone for not having a life, look in the mirror. W0rf has contributed more intelligent conversation to this site in the last week than you ever will, even if you are here for three years.