Ah, That Island Paradise
I was innocently basking in the wonderful sight of Cuba’s UN delegation flouncing out of the room because Bush said some mean wotten things about Pappa Fidel, when Reason brings this nonsense to my attention. It’s a long scientific paper (and behind a firewall in any case) but the abstract is something that will make Michael Moore drool. We’ll be sure to see him crowing about this soon.
Cuba’s economic crisis of 1989–2000…
Whoa whoa whoa! Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Economic crisis of 1989-2000? An eleven year economic crisis?! That’s impossible on the Island Paradise. Note the year it started. 1989. The year communism fell and Fidel stopping getting handouts from the Commies. So, in a very real sense, they have been in an economic crisis since 1959.
Anyway, resuming our discussion:
Cuba’s economic crisis of 1989–2000 resulted in reduced energy intake, increased physical activity, and sustained population-wide weight loss.
Most people call that “starvation”, but I’ll let them stick to the technical terms.
The crisis reduced per capita daily energy intake from 2,899 calories to 1,863 calories. During the crisis period, the proportion of physically active adults increased from 30% to 67%, and a 1.5-unit shift in the body mass index distribution was observed, along with a change in the distribution of body mass index categories. The prevalence of obesity declined from 14% to 7%, the prevalence of overweight increased 1%, and the prevalence of normal weight increased 4%.
Add the numbers to see what they’ve left out—the population of underweight people increased at least 2%. As a commenter at Reason pointed out, the Jews lost a lot of weight during the Holocaust, too. I would add that so did the Ukranians during Stalin, the Irish during the Potato Famine, Africans during various civil wars, Cambodians under Pol Pot and . . . Christ, I can’t go on with this. You get the idea.
During 1997–2002, there were declines in deaths attributed to diabetes (51%), coronary heart disease (35%), stroke (20%), and all causes (18%).
Of course, we always believe numbers that come out of Communist countries. Like the way the Soviets used to claim they had suburbs. Granted, some of those suburbs consisted of log cabins and mud huts, but ... they were suburbs! Those people were below the urb. In many cases, six feet below it.
Not reported? How much of an increase there was in death by suicide and starvation. Note carefully that the overall death rate dropped less than the death rate from stroke, heart disease and cancer - so something must have increased. For most people, you’ve got to live a while before you get a stroke, heart disease or cancer. I have no doubt that the millions of Africans murdered during the Congo War had decreased rates of stroke, heart disease and cancer as well.
An outbreak of neuropathy and a modest increase in the all-cause death rate among the elderly were also observed.
Hmm. So just one decade of this back-breaking-labor-and-starvation plan has already shorted and worsened the lives of Cuba’s seniors. That’s nice.
These results suggest that population-wide measures designed to reduce energy stores, without affecting nutritional sufficiency [!!], may lead to declines in diabetes and cardiovascular disease prevalence and mortality.
So there you have it. Michael Moore was right. Cuba has pointed the way! All we need to do is reduce ourselves to such abject total poverty that our 15-year-old daughters are prostitutes. We need to all quit our computer jobs and go to manual labor (all except Mikey of course. Every Golgafrinchan paradise needs documentary film makers). We need to all get the food literally ripped out of our hands ... and we’ll all be healthier!
I think Michael, for opening the discussion of how wonderful Cuba’s healthcare system is, deserves, at minimum, a Nobel Prize. I’ll see if they have a category for fatuous self-importance.
I’m going to go off on a tangent here, but one I think is critical to how we think about socialized medicine. If we get MikeyMooreCare, forced diets will be coming, one way or another.
I’m sure there a lot of health Nazis out there who are reading this and nodding their heads. Our national obssession with obesity—and in particular, the useless Body Mass Index—has warped our perception of everything. (BMI is useless—the healthiest Americans are those who are slightly overweight).
The Health Nazis are already saying our government should force us to diet and exercise. And now, they’ve got the data to back it up! Ok, maybe we don’t need extreme poverty. But coercive methods (denying care to the obese, a fat tax, etc.) would work! Cuba is healthier!
But even we accept these bullshit statistics, Cuba’s is not healthier. You can’t consider this thing in a vacuum, unless your last name happens to be “Moore”.
Consider this: some time back, the NYT ran an excellent article about how seniors in the US today are healthier than seniors have ever been. 100 years ago, if you were lucky enough to reach 60, you were almost certaintly in bad shape and probably bed-ridden. The astonishing improvement is attributed, not to better adult care, but to better early care - prenatal care, early immunization and, yes, better nutrition in the first few years of life.
One particular fact struck me. Children who were in the womb during the great Flu Pandemic, compared to children who came before or after, lived shorter lives and had more health problems. Just their mothers catching the damned flu was enough to affect them for the rest of their lives. It is an inescapable fact of life that good prenatal and early childhood care can set someone up for a lifetime of better health.
The Health Nazis look at Cuba, see weight loss and say, “Hooray!”. I’m sure Michael Moore will joke, “Boy, I sure wish I lived in Cuba! Ha! Ha!” But the negative effects of this wonderful beneficial glorious economic crisis may not show up for half a century, when the children of Cuba grow up to be unhealthy, crippled adults.
Now, forget Cuba for a moment. Forget weight loss and BMI. Concentrate on the principle. We have serious researchers proclaming that starvation was a good thing. Does it really stretch the imagination to think that, once our healthcare is in the government’s hands, some idiot won’t convince them ... well maybe not that starvation is good. But how about that stomach stapling should be mandated? Or even craziers ideas like mammograms cause brain cancer? Or that cell phones should be banned? That reading blogs stunts your growth? That masturbation makes you blind? Can’t you imagine Congress debating the merits of aromatherapy and magnets?
OK, maybe we won’t get crazy ideas like that. But right now we have people who want to mandate the HPV vaccine. And as much as I hate to side with the anti-vaccinators, what happens if we find out that it has long-term fertility effects? It wouldn’t be the first time a supposedly safe OB/Gyn drug caused defects twenty years down the road.
If the government controls healthcare, decisions will not be made by the Wisdom of Crowds but by policy wonks. And policy wonks have an amazing tendency to embrace unproven ideas that later turn out to be bad ones.
“Hey, our methods made Americans skinnier! Hooray! Oh, but now we have a bunch of crippled seniors. D’oh!”
The reason conservatives like me oppose government control is because it limits the damage of dumb ideas and bad policy. If I fall for some whack-job unscientific health nonsense or embrace a seemingly good idea (like vaccinating my daughter against HPV) that later turns out to be bad, the only person hurt is myself and my family. When the government embraces bad ideas—we all get hurt. And the history of government is that they come up with far more bad ideas than good ones.
Such as, you know, communism.
Comments
Red Star’s woeful ignorance regarding Cuba’s recent history is even worst than his/her reading comprehension skills.
Hint: Nobody is comdemning Cuba’s medical training program. In fact, even before Fidel, Cuba had some the best doctors around. Problem is Cuba is so dirt poor those doctors don’t have the funding to do their job. That’s why some folks use the black market in Cuba for medical care.
You really should spend some time researching these posts before making such lame statements.
I think artmonkey will soon be regretting sticking up for this idiot.
Buzz, you should really spend some time researching these posts before making such lame comments. By the way, the word is worse, not ‘worst.’
Hint: I never said anyone was condemning Cuba’s medical training program, for some strange reason it has hardly been mentioned. My point was this, that some brilliant programs have come from a country that as you described, is dirt poor. And for that Cuba needs to be praised.
I think the second link I posted brings home the point, just because a country is poor, with a little assistance from others I may add, doesn’t mean that country deserves the complete ignorance shown here of total and absolute criticism.
And Buzzion, that’s a bit abrasive isn’t,? you’re an idiot but I would gladly stick up for you.
just because a country is poor, with a little assistance from others I may add,
Cuba is poor because of Castro. No assistance needed. Oh wait you actually buy the bullshit that Cuba is poor because of the United States’ refusal to trade with them. Idiot.
Pop quiz Buzzion, first prize a Disneyland T-shirt and a can of Coke. What is the difference between the “dirt poor” Cuba of today, and the Mafia run brothel that existed under the Batista regime.?
I realise you aren’t too bright so I’ll give you a clue, the latter was supported by your country.
Thank God America has stopped trading with them. Give me your contact details and because I believe in the Socialist ethic I will send the T-shirt and Coke to you anyway. Genius.
Pop Quiz dumbass, what is stopping other nations from investing in Cuba? Sure isn’t the United States. Could it be that when they have done that ol’ Castro dicks them over? Gee I wonder.
Dumbass?? well, bugger you then, you are missing out on the Coke and T-shirt.
Well, Red Star since Fidel inherited some pretty good medical schools there in Cuba, shouldn’t you be praising Bastista and the Mafia for their previous efforts?My point was this, that some brilliant programs have come from a country that as you described, is dirt poor. And for that Cuba needs to be praised.
By the way, Fidel sends most of Cuba’s better doctors to foreign countries under a trade program. For example, he trades medical care for oil with Hugo Chavez. And many of the top notch Cuban medical professionals work in his medical tourism industry which caters to rich Europeans. Where do you think this leaves the average Cuban?
After a half century of Fidel Castro, the average Cuban ranks among the poorest in the region. Cuban has yet to figure out how to deliver fresh milk to all of its children. Shortages of virtually everything exist there . . . including medicine. One man, one vote, one candidate! The communist personality cult of Fidel Castro isn’t exactly a system I would be praising . . . for any reason. (I certainly hope you don’t want to tell us of all the virtues of North Korea either.)
Being the nice guy I am, I won’t mention all your faults with the English language . . . which reveal much about you.
I think the second link I posted brings home the point, just because a country is poor, with a little assistance from others I may add, doesn’t mean that country deserves the complete ignorance shown here of total and absolute criticism.
Because there are some positive aspects that balance out Cuba’s shortcomings, yes?
I could just as well—and I do—make the comparison that just because America has some problems doesn’t mean it deserves the complete ignorance and absolute criticism that gets shoveled on it on a daily basis from every quarter. Because there are, whether you like to admit it or not, positive aspects that balance it out.
Bismarck, yes, I have to concede that, good point, and I guess sometimes my balance is a little off.
Buzz, did you actually read the whole article,? many Cuban doctors work in the poorest sectors of communities in the worlds poorest countries. If I have misunderstood you forgive me, and yes sometimes my English is ‘worst’ than others. There are far more positive aspects to Cuba than the ones I mentioned, time doesn’t permit me to post all the links, however I suggest for another point of view you aquire the DVD, ‘How Cuba Survived The Peak Oil Crisis’ it’s 3 am here so I’m off to bed.
Red Star, I don’t think you’ll find anyone here that doesn’t see or know the positive aspects to Cuba—what we have a problem with is Castro. I don’t think we’re terribly off-base to suggest that if Castro/his regime were out of the way, Cuba would be in a much better place.
Now, forget Cuba for a moment. Forget weight loss and BMI. Concentrate on the principle. We have serious researchers proclaming that starvation was a good thing.
Lets be fair. Did they really say it was good or did they just document facts?
We wouldn’t know about your theory of womb illness shortening lifespans unless other people documented it… we need info. Even stuff like what is happening in Cuba should be researched… just so we know more.
Haven’t commented in a while, but have been reading with some interest the ongoing postings re: the Island Paradise.
Two things have struck me. First, I wonder if MikeS, or others have gone down to Cuba? Actual Cuba, not the one where Jose serves Mojitoes in the pool at the resort. I appreciate the difficulties Americans face getting down there, but if you haven’t already, it might be worth your while to do some firsthand exploration. Comments like: “All we need to do is reduce ourselves to such abject total poverty that our 15-year-old daughters are prostitutes” are vile, degrading to Cubans and only demonstrate your ignorance, MikeS.
I’ve had the pleasure of traveling to Cuba on four occasions to visit my friend who lives in Havana. I can tell you, as can my friend, there are plenty of shortcomings in Paradise. Seeing him hassled by police for “bothering a tourist” on more than one occasion comes to mind. And let’s not start about the challenges of rationing. But I can also tell you there are many incredible things about Cuba. The sense of community being the most memorable for me. Each visit, the gifts that I bring down to my hosts are promptly passed around to all the neighbours on the street to share. The incredibly talented, intelligent and welcoming people I have met is another. My friend, a tour guide, can speak five languages, and knows faaaaar more about his country’s rich history than I about my own. Another thing that comes to mind, is the lack of waste in Cuba. The streets are teeming with fine American automobiles from another era, kept alive by Cubans (“Every Cuban is a mechanic” is the expression.)
Second, is that the debate seems to be focused on making direct comparisons between the health care (and standard of living in general) offered in the US and Cuba. Once again, I think Moorewatchers are taking Michael Moore too literally and missing a point (e.g. “No Canadians lock their doors..”) Instead, how about comparing Cuba to other countries in the region? I’ve been other places in the Caribbean and South America, and I can assure you, the poverty and living conditions I witnessed were far worse.
“… One would expect that acknowledging the regional problems would lead to paying some attention to the only country that has departed from the pattern: Cuba. That island has not followed the neo-liberal formulas, and had to face the most thorough and profound economic crisis in the entire region – imposed by the disappearance of the USSR and the deepening/ extension of the US embargo.
The United Nations Development Program in its annual report for 2003 disclosed that Cuba ranked 52nd in the Human Development Index, which measures the relative quality of life of 175 countries. Cuba’s index was the 6th highest within Latin America, ranking better than Trinidad Tobago, Mexico, Panama, Colombia, Brazil, Venezuela, Jamaica, Peru, Paraguay, Guyana, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, El Salvador, Bolivia, Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua and Haiti.
Cuba has managed to separate access to education, health and social welfare from household income. Today the island has the highest ratio of doctors to patients in the world, and one of the healthiest populations in the hemisphere. Moreover, according to UNESCO’s Latin American Laboratory for Evaluation and Quality of Education, Cuban students in comparative national tests out-perform all other students from the hemisphere by 100 points over and above the regional average, with Argentina, Chile and Brazil following. That is the case in language skills, mathematics and physics. Contrary to what it is assumed, Cuban education tries to develop and foster creativity, critical thinking, research and cooperative learning environments.”
Article
Cuba’s current 2006 HDI ranking is a very respectable 50th (considered high) in the world.
As an aside, I take issue with you minimalizing the impact of the US embargo on the Cuban economy. Imagine saying the same about Canada – it would devastate our economy…
As per your overall idea about the health Nazis (communists and fascists all in one post… *8) ) trying to determine what people eat. I work in close proximity to the health care sector up here and speak with doctors all the time who are seeing the effects of a poor diet. As someone who keeps himself in some semblance of good shape, I have no qualms with charging sin taxes, so that a Big Mac’s actual cost is accounted for. If healthy food choices were subsidized, more people would choose to eat healthy food. I’ve seen it. Husky Injection Moulding in Bolton has an incredible employee enrichment program, which includes a cafeteria where a can of Coke is more expensive than a glass of fresh OJ. Sick days, absenteeism, etc are far below avg..
Whew… that turned out to be way longer than expected…
Canuck, I appreciate that you’ve been to Cuba. My numerous trips to your country has led me to the conclusion that your cigar shop owners make plenty of money selling Cubans. Ahh, the revenue flowing back to Cuban citizens must be all that’s keeping them going. Your guvment is so very magnanimous.
Regardless, here’s a website by people who’ve lived in Cuba. I highly encourage you to read it over thorougly, and then let us know if any of that is the Cuba that you’ve visited:
It’s Been Linked Here Many Times Before, But Apparently Rarely Visited...
About taking moore too literally (he’s a DOCUMENTARY film maker, should we take his work with a grain of salt?), here’s what the writers at the website I linked have to say about that:
How Michael Moore lied to the American people
Asked by the Associated Press if the American film crew received special treatment because they were an American film crew? Moore and his producer, Meghan O’Hara, insist they did not.
“We demanded that we be treated on the same floor as all Cubans, not the special floor for foreigners.”
But that’s not true. Moore’s guests were treated on the 19th. floor of the Hermanos Ameijeiras Hospital, one of the floors reserved for foreigners and for the government elite.
It is very hard for a regular Cuban to receive treatment at the Hermanos Ameijeiras Hospital, even on the lower floors. And it is impossible for a regular Cuban to receive treatment at one of the floors that are reserved for foreigners and the government elite.
But we should never take a documentarian at his word, that would be so literal…
As an aside, I take issue with you minimalizing the impact of the US embargo on the Cuban economy. Imagine saying the same about Canada – it would devastate our economy…
Sounds like NOT being embargoed by the U.S. leads to even deeper poverty. Well, all those other Carribean nations will just have to get in line because we’re pretty damn selective about who we embargo.I’ve been other places in the Caribbean and South America, and I can assure you, the poverty and living conditions I witnessed were far worse.
Canuck, in case you haven’t heard, people aren’t exactly beating the doors down to invest in Cuba. In fact, Cuba is one of the least attractive places in the world for foreign investment. Castro’s history of screwing people out of their assets doesn’t set well with folks who expect a return on their investment. Of course, as a Canadian YOU are free to invest YOUR money there, but remember, when Castro nationalized industry after the glorious revolution, he even went after street vendors . . . being the evil capitalists they are, you know.
Tell you what, why don’t you Email your friend and get him to post in the forums a list of all the hot investment tickets in Cuba. I’m sure a whole lot of MooreWatchers from all over the world are sitting at their computer, checkbook in hand, just waiting to send their hard-earned money to the Island Paradise (U.S. citizens excluded). Naturally, I’m assuming your friend is free to register and post here on MooreWatch . . . just like any Canadian can do provided they have government clearance. (You do have government clearance, don’t you?)
Or maybe you should rethink your take on the realities of just why Cuba remains a 3rd World nation a half century after the glorious revolution. It might have much to do with the political and economic philosophy of one particular self-proclaimed Marxist who still wears black boots and finely tailored green fatigues . . . who nobody wants to trust with their money.
Oh, and by the way, I use to own stock in a couple of Canadian companies . . . Canadian Income Trusts. I don’t own them anymore because the Canadian government got greedy.
If they continue down this road they have the fate of North Koreans to look forward to.
I just gotta know what kinda new and wonderful medical knowledge/technology has ever come out of Castro’s Cuba? Red Star says
My point was this, that some brilliant programs have come from a country that as you described, is dirt poor.
Can you tell me some, cause I honestly dont know of any.
And I dont know about the supposed expertise of cuban doctors being shipped around the world but I do remember this article from a few years back
I wouldn’t put too much faith in things like the UN’s Human Development Index. The figures used to derive that index are self-reported and commie countries have a long history of blowing sunshine up the world’s collective ass. The USSR economy was growing by leaps and bounds right up to the day the country collapsed if you believe what they reported.
. . . and commie countries have a long history of blowing sunshine up the world’s collective ass.
Sorta like Michael Moore does . . . with the same effect.
Sounds like NOT being embargoed by the U.S. leads to even deeper poverty. Well, all those other Carribean nations will just have to get in line because we’re pretty damn selective about who we embargo.
I’m going to assume that’s sarcasm and that you don’t really believe it. If a US embargo is such a useless tool, why bother? I’m interested in your – serious - opinion as to why the disparity exists between Cuba and many other nations in the region. If their system is such an abject failure, and full blown capitalism is the only route to success, then one would assume Cuba would be, developmentally, at the bottom of the heap, yes?
Canuck, in case you haven’t heard, people aren’t exactly beating the doors down to invest in Cuba. In fact, Cuba is one of the least attractive places in the world for foreign investment. Castro’s history of screwing people out of their assets doesn’t set well with folks who expect a return on their investment. Of course, as a Canadian YOU are free to invest YOUR money there, but remember, when Castro nationalized industry after the glorious revolution, he even went after street vendors . . . being the evil capitalists they are, you know.
I’m curious what countries in South America and the Caribbean are having their doors beaten down by investors, other than principally for cheap labour. As a savvy investor, do you own a lot of stock in blue chip Trinidadian companies?
Tell you what, why don’t you Email your friend and get him to post in the forums a list of all the hot investment tickets in Cuba. I’m sure a whole lot of MooreWatchers from all over the world are sitting at their computer, checkbook in hand, just waiting to send their hard-earned money to the Island Paradise (U.S. citizens excluded). Naturally, I’m assuming your friend is free to register and post here on MooreWatch . . . just like any Canadian can do provided they have government clearance. (You do have government clearance, don’t you?)
As I stated up front in my post, there are some serious, serious problems in Cuba – intrusions on personal freedoms being one of the most significant ones, and one that I included in my post. I believe in democracy and a free press. I also believe in the provision of socialized services. I think one can look at the Cuban example and see areas of success, instead of, “They’re commies. It sucks. Case closed.”
Or maybe you should rethink your take on the realities of just why Cuba remains a 3rd World nation a half century after the glorious revolution. It might have much to do with the political and economic philosophy of one particular self-proclaimed Marxist who still wears black boots and finely tailored green fatigues . . . who nobody wants to trust with their money.
Interesting that you used the term, Third World, which was coined around the time of the Revolution and is really quite dated. Not to mention it was also developed by us folks in the “First World”, so it’s safe to say it’s biased in favour of the path we’ve taken. Nonetheless, I’m looking forward to seeing your evidence that lumps Cuba in with Chad, Yemen and Haiti…
And Castro is not the only world leader who likes to dress up in army gear and parade around; though, in his case, he actually wore those fatigues in combat. Foreign trust in a leader? If that’s how you gauge success, I’ve got some bad news for you.
Foreign trust in a leader? If that’s how you gauge success, I’ve got some bad news for you.
Are you really going to play this that stupidly and need to have what he said spelled out for you?
In other words Buzzion you can’t address the previous post so you write one sentence and hope for the best. Or as I believe you quoted of me once, of course I’m paraphrasing, I’m a right wing idiot, blah, blah, blah, I’ll say the same shit over and over again, blah, blah, blah.
No Red Star, I want to know if Canuck is going to act as dumb as you are based on that statement. I know you certainly won’t be able to figure it out. I asked a question because I don’t want to take the time to explain something so simple to nimrods like you that refuse to actually use their brains.
Yeah, I thought I was right about you, thanks for the confirmation
Canuck,
If you want to defend Cuba’s economic and political system by trying to distinguish between wretched poverty and abject poverty, go ahead. The degree of separation is very slight.
On the other hand, if you want to compare Cuba’s system to those found in Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Costa Rica, etc. then the degree of separation becomes a gulf.
And why is that? You don’t suppose it has a damn thing to do with free private enterprise, do you? Cuba’s gross domestic product (GDP) doesn’t even equal Microsoft’s gross revenue.
Without investment capital to create innovation, you cannot compete in a world economy. Read Cuba’s history to see why no one invests there. Some of the dumbest economic plans ever devised by humans came from Fidel Castro.
Meanwhile, read who invests in Argentina, Chile, Costa Rica, Brazil, etc., then compare their PPP to Cuba’s.
Cuba was a 3rd World nation when the term was coined, they have been a 3rd World nation since the revolution, and they will remain a 3rd World nation as long as Castro is in power. So, you can choose to call Cuba a “developing nation” if you want to spin it that way to be politically correct, but that won’t change a damn thing. In the grand scheme of things, certain realities always trump terminology.
As I stated up front in my post, there are some serious, serious problems in Cuba – intrusions on personal freedoms being one of the most significant ones, and one that I included in my post. I believe in democracy and a free press. I also believe in the provision of socialized services. I think one can look at the Cuban example and see areas of success, instead of, “They’re commies. It sucks. Case closed.”
Take away the right to work for yourself, invest your disposable income or borrowed funds into some business enterprise, reap profits (or suffer losses) while having the freedom to prosper from your own efforts and what do you have? Something far removed from Cuba. Any democracy (which Cuba isn’t) or form of government that LIMITS personal freedoms to this degree is a tyranny.
So, yeah . . . in Cuba’s case, they’re commies . . . it sucks . . . case closed.
Buzzion:
Are you really going to play this that stupidly and need to have what he said spelled out for you?
I was going to ask you if you had any value to add to the discussion, but it appears as though Red Star has taken care of it. Any thoughts at all on my lengthy previous post, or just insinuations about my intelligence?
To address your point, Buzz has started with what I feel is a false premise, “Cuba remains a 3rd World nation a half century after the glorious revolution,” and asked for his proof of this. He then delivers a line mocking Castro re: his military attire, remarkably not seeing the irony in his comment in light of the famed “Flight Deck Landing of ‘03”. Where’s the stupidity of that?
And though my comment re: the flight suit was mostly intended as light humour, I was quite serious about the international standing of George W, and the global view of his trustworthiness, ergo, the US and A’s. Though I’m sure you’ll tell me that you don’t give an eff what those Europeans think…and that’s swell.
You know, I’m curious… if Cuba is a developing nation, what exactly are they developing? What have they added that they didn’t have, say, ten years ago? Twenty? Thirty? I mean, if they’re a developing nation, there should certainly be some marked difference between now and when they started developing, shouldn’t there?
So what has Cuba developed? (Other than, apparently, a lot more prisons and some labor camps.) What innovations has Castro’s government brought to Cuba? I mean, nowadays, it should be relatively easy to “develop” a nation, even with a US embargo, right? And since it’s a Communist government, everyone should reap the awards of that development.
I mean, sure, maybe they’re having some hurdles, so free T1 lines to everyone’s house isn’t sensible… but surely everyone could get free dialup? (Or, hey, free phone service at the very least!) I mean, Cuba brags about having 100% literacy, surely they’re interested in bringing their people things that can help them learn more about the world, and so that they can tell the world about Cuba’s development and fight those nasty rumors about it?
But no, seriously… what has Cuba developed? What are they developing? What is the difference between Cuba now and Cuba in the first year of Castro’s takeover?
But no, seriously… what has Cuba developed? What are they developing? What is the difference between Cuba now and Cuba in the first year of Castro’s takeover?
Everyone gets free electrical power . . . when their obsolete equipment is working and the power isn’t off due to fuel shortages . . . which occurs daily.
Everyone gets free medical care . . . provided they can afford it on the black market.
Everyone gets their fair share of rationed milk.
Everyone gets a free education since driving a cab in Cuba apparently requires having a Masters degree in Mechanical Engineering.
To address your point, Buzz has started with what I feel is a false premise, “Cuba remains a 3rd World nation a half century after the glorious revolution,” and asked for his proof of this. He then delivers a line mocking Castro re: his military attire, remarkably not seeing the irony in his comment in light of the famed “Flight Deck Landing of ‘03”. Where’s the stupidity of that?
I realize that Canadians who fly in in F-18 Hornets wear usually sandels, Bermuda shorts, and a Che T-shirt—that or a tuxedo with tails and bow tie—but due to Navy regulations, pressurized flight suits with radio equiped helments having sun visors are required for everyone else.
. . . with what I feel is a false premise, “Cuba remains a 3rd World nation a half century after the glorious revolution,” . . .
Canuck, I know what you want to believe. The facts, however, are contrary to that belief. Cuba ranks with the poorest of nations. That the per capita GDP of Cuba is slightly higher than that of Haiti doesn’t exactly make them the economic envy of the world.
George Bush doesn’t dictate what economic system we have in the United States. Meanwhile, I haven’t seen where foreign investors have shunned investing in the U.S. because of who is president. In Cuba, Castro can change the rules overnight. U.S. Presidents don’t have that kind of power, and investors know it.And though my comment re: the flight suit was mostly intended as light humour, I was quite serious about the international standing of George W, and the global view of his trustworthiness, ergo, the US and A’s. Though I’m sure you’ll tell me that you don’t give an eff what those Europeans think…and that’s swell.
The point is this: The U.S. is still considered one of the safest places (if not the safest) in the world to invest. That’s because of our system, not our fearless leader.
To add a point . . . there is a certain wisdom in dumping your fearless leader once every 4 to 8 years. Unfortunately, Cuba doesn’t enjoy that luxury.
I’m sure you’ll tell me that you don’t give an eff what those Europeans think…and that’s swell.
Why precisely should we give an eff about what the Europeans think? They clearly don’t give an eff about what we think.
I’m actually surprised no one has asked this question, in a supposedly rich country like America, why does so much poverty exist.? According to the US Census Bureau 35.9 million people live below the poverty line. And yet despite this and the abundance of poverty in the world, America also apparently wastes 100 billion pounds of food each year. While a few here dribble over the state of Cuba, a relatively small nation, one of the biggest and richest countries in the world is swallowed up by greed and consumerism. Homelessness in the states is also sky high, Capitalism isn’t all it’s cracked up to be,
http://www.soundvision.com/info/poor/statistics.asp
http//www.solutionsforamerica.org/thrivingneigh/homelessness.html
Red Star, you make some good points. I think a better question is, “If America is that bad, why do some Cubans risk their lives to get here?”
I’m actually surprised no one has asked this question, in a supposedly rich country like America, why does so much poverty exist.?
Wow yeah that’s never ever been asked here before. I’ve never ever heard that question before.
You realize that a good amonut of those who are below in the poverty line in America actually have better lives than their counterparts in Europe. Hell probably some of their “betters” in Europe too.
Just like that everything else you’ve written is drivel as well.
The right to the Pursuit of Happiness and also an equal opportunity does not guarrantee that you will be happy or an equality of outcome. If you screw your life up to the point where you are homeless then I am not obligated to help you beyond what I feel I should.
And Canuck.
I asked you a question, and even though you didn’t answer it, you did provide the answer. I was giving you the opportunity to recant what you had said to save some face. You really are going to be this stupid.
Let’s get back to the beginning.
Or maybe you should rethink your take on the realities of just why Cuba remains a 3rd World nation a half century after the glorious revolution. It might have much to do with the political and economic philosophy of one particular self-proclaimed Marxist who still wears black boots and finely tailored green fatigues . . . who nobody wants to trust with their money.
You see in Cuba, the government is essentially Fidel. And if you want to do business in Cuba, you are doing business with the government. Due to Castro’s policies, foreign investors are going to be skeptical of doing business in there, since if they start making money Fidel might decide to nationalize their endeavor.
You responded to this with:
Foreign trust in a leader? If that’s how you gauge success, I’ve got some bad news for you.
Which is a little slam at Bush. But in comparison to what is being discussed this is stupid. In other words you bringing it up is stupid. Which is why I asked you about taking this route. And Buzz answered it handily.
You don’t need to have trust in Bush to do business in America. He’ll probably have very little effect on you. Hell overall the government in general won’t have that wide reaching of an effect on you when compared to a place like Cuba. Unless of course you happen to be a middle east business, and the democrats who have been screaming about threats from islamic extremists being overblown, find that there really is a threat.
So congratulations, you’ve proven again you’re a moron.
To further illuminate Red Star’s links, please click here.
The oracles of Buzzion..."The right to the pursuit of happiness and also an equal opportunity,” and… “if you screw your life up to the point where you are homeless”. And you call Canuck a moron,? those two quotes from you are the ravings of a fucken lunatic.
You sound like you are doing a voiceover for a Superman movie in one, and the other just proves what a souless bastard you really are. In every society people get left behind, quite often it is not their fault. Very few, if any, choose to go hungry or live on the street you idiot. But hey, screw everyone else, I’m doing alright, some good Capitalist logic there arsehole.
I repeat, in a rich, wasteful country like yours, there is very little excuse for the rate of poverty in your society. And please don’t respond with your usual bullshit one liners. For fuck sake, this time type in the link, hopefully something will penetrate the red, white and blue heammorage in your few remaining brain cells, I doubt it though.
http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/tour2.htm
I feel like I’m playing Dueling URLs…
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Economy/wm1592.cfm
Bismark, at least you have some semblance of sanity, I am an Australian, here we are told by the fool leading us that, and I quote, “things have never been better.” We are told our economy is booming, our employment rates are sky high and that life in the “lucky country” is just great.
For ten years, mostly seven days a week I have been surrounded by some of the most broken, wretched people I would ever wish to meet. Homeless, lonely, poor and mostly mentally ill, all of them ignored by the system. I work with six or seven other people who shoulder the responsibilty for at least two or three hundred homeless a week, a conservative estimate is that there are at least one hundred thousand homeless in my country. And most of our caring community couldn’t give a shit.
Like Buzzion, most are ignorant, heartless morons whose stupidity is only matched by their greed. Oh, except for once a year when some of them ease their conscience by giving to the Salvation Army, who have to come knocking on their door. Sometimes, very rarely, we get visits from church going ‘God fearing folk’ who spend two hours trying to save the souls of the poor sinners we work with, then they return to their comfortable homes in their comfortable neighbourhoods with a deep sense of self satisfied, self righteous warmth flooding their godly souls.
I hear moronic comments similar to Buzzion’s everday, and I feel like vomiting over the fools who make them. In saying all this I am not posing as Mother Theresa, I am as guilty of apathy and coldness as a lot of the people I condemn, the difference is I am aware of it. The system that treats the poor of this country like disposable garbage and those who function under and support that system are blissfully ignorant of any sense of moral responsibility, and like Buzzion, are quite happy to stay that way.
Maybe I should stick to the bullshit produced by Capitalism in Australia, obviously everyone in America is doing just fine, and I am not saying that as an insult to anyone, just a response to the views of people I have conversed with here
I repeat in a rich, wasteful country like yours, there is very little excuse for the rate of poverty in your society.
Depends on the definition of poverty. Who’s poorer, the average person who lives in Mississippi with a per capita income of over $26,000 or the average Cuban who has to spend a weeks wages just to buy a turkey?
And so it goes with the definition of hunger here . . . in most cases it means “food anxiety.”
In other words, you don’t have to be hungry . . . you just have to be concerned you might not have enough to eat next week. A more interesting stat is how many people died of malnutrition or starvation in this country in recent years . . . look it up . . . last time I looked it was zero . . . and that comes from the CDC in Atlanta.
As for homelessness, people have problems . . . they leave their husband, their dwelling burns down, they lose their job and can’t pay their rent, they have serious problems with alcohol . . . and so forth. The vast majority of them end up in homeless shelters UNTIL THEY CAN GET ON THEIR FEET AGAIN . . . which is something no one seems to mention . . . which is usually 2 to 4 months . . . which is how it goes in Australia, too. In fact, in most developed nations there are homeless people . . . for one reason or another.
That you choose to point this out about the U.S. proves you WANT to find something to dig us about . . . well, try another subject because these have long since been debunked.
Maybe I should stick to the bullshit produced by Capitalism in Australia . . .
Maybe you should stick to a subject you know something about . . . like explain to us a system better than Capitalism . . . because it sure ain’t the system in Marxist Cuba.
Buzz, what an in depth view of poverty and homelessness you provide there, two to four months, and that happens in Australia too.? Where the hell did you get that from.? The figures are more than likely years, not months, in Australia anyway. I guess in America, where the poor have coloured televisions and air conditioners things are a little different. Pay us a visit, come to the homeless hostels or even walk through the city, then sprout figures about the homeless here.
awwww poor red star. If only everyone would think like him and help out those poor downtrodden souls the world would be full of rainbows and unicorns.
Everytime you open your mouth you prove more and more that you think the solution to the world’s problems is communism. You just don’t want to admit it because that will shatter your fragile mind when you realize that what you think would be good has been tried and the result is more misery.
Oh and we have heard your crap hear multiple times. You somehow think you’re original. In fact you’re just tiresome. Hell I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to find out you were someone who got banned here before because you posted stupid crap.
Nice of you to think that equal opportunities and one of the inalienable rights are the “ravings of a fucken lunatic”
Oh and statements like this:
Very few, if any, choose to go hungry or live on the street you idiot
Are retarded. Just because they didn’t choose to do it, doesn’t mean the decisions and choices they made led them to that outcome.
Go ahead and post some more silly links you think will convince people to see things your way, and start advocating that charity should become mandatory, and our food regulated so we don’t waste so much.
Buzz, on Marxism, the Socialists in my country do more than the fundamentalist Christians, who are held up here in Sydney as saviours of the free world. That’s good enough for me, I have gone through the Cuba discussion verbatim, go back and read what I have already written, you will see it is a balanced opinion.
Buzzion, “inalienable rights and equal opportunities”? if I didn’t think you were serious and believed that shit I would probably fall off the chair laughing. A discussion with you is like having a discussion with a dog turd. Except the dog turd has a greater concept of reality, and a great deal more intelligence. Although on the other hand there are some striking similarities.
Post a Comment:
Commenting is not available in this weblog entry.The trackback URL for this entry is:
Trackbacks:
- 80s Cartoons
Your vote: No votes yet My theory is that there should be a channel on digital (or oogital if you bootleg your shit) cable or satellite that is strictly for cartoons from the 1980s. Next to the 1950s-60s when Looney ToTracked on: Step Into the Nexus · missnexus.com (74.220.207.72) at 2007 11 17 01:05:53
RSS (Subscribe)
Yes, those evil Communist bastards, I say we nuke em’ and here are my reasons for condemning another part of another part of an axis of evil, forgive the Bushism.
http://www.pm.gov.tl/15nov06.htm
http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/351/26/2680?ijkey=fuAXSM9NJAMfU&keytype;=ref&site;=nejm
With this type of behaviour the very fabric of our civilized society could very well be under threat!!!