The Moore fans and “I’m not really a fan of Michael Moore, but-” people (IE Moore fans) always go so utterly silent on these posts.

I wonder how come...?

Yeah, if it were about a lie someone on their side made they’d roll out a bunch of things the other side said that they believe are lies (only a fraction of which are, the rest are either differences of opinion or fabrications of lies.. re: more lies from their side)… and then say something about ‘fighting fire with fire’ or something…

But with corruption, that ‘argument’ doesn’t seem to fly… hence the silence…

This is the type of world socialized medicine will lead to.

I read that the other day Chas, thats messed UP.

I’d talk to a lawyer…

The Moore fans and “I’m not really a fan of Michael Moore, but-” people (IE Moore fans) always go so utterly silent on these posts.

I wonder how come...?

It is interesting, isn’t it, Rann?  They have been silent about much of this debate.

Indeed. Even on the AOL blog, where they’ve had a steady stream of diehards all but screaming “BUSHITLER LIED, PEOPLE DIED!” up ‘til now, up to and including saying that everyone saying anything bad about Moore was just a hired shill of the government.

On anything with even the vaguest, slightest leeway, they’ll defend him all the live-long day. He must have had SOME reason, it MUST have been said in good faith, and so on and so on.

But this… nothing. No defenses, other than the single lame one by Red Star in the other post saying “It’s good that he said that” while offering not a single hint that he expected Moore to actually keep to his word or condemned him for breaking it.

It’s the same almost every time he’s caught with his own words. His falsifications on film they can spin spin spin all the day long, but this… well, it’s something Moore said he would do and that he’s obviously not doing.

What is there to say? So they’re just going to ignore it until they think it’s safely forgotten.

I say that we should have had enough of that by now.

In the near future, when we have posts on other subjects and a Moore defender steps up, I say we link them back to this post or a similar, untouched-by-Moorefan type post. They’re not allowed to participate in the debate until they’ve in some way condemned or defended such actions. And no weaselly “He’s right, we should get our own corrupt first” without answering for the fact that he HASN’T.

I watched ‘Manufacturing Dissent’ last night, an interesting, but vicious critique of Michael Moore. Maybe he deserves it, maybe he doesn’t, I don’t really care, Moore doesn’t rate anywhere near the likes of Parenti, Zinn or Greenwald, to name just a few, who represent the left. I think the thing I found most galling if it’s true, and I have no reason to doubt it, is the fact that Moore made ‘Roger And Me’ a monument to himself when so many others fought alongside him. I also thought Michael’s treatment of Charlton Heston was a bit vindictive and unfair, but I thought that before watching ‘Manufacturing Dissent’. A couple of things, I wondered why Moore made it so difficult for the film makers to interview him, that didn’t seem to make sense. Also on the Australian release the DVD is said to feature Noam Chomsky, Chomsky wasn’t on it, did they mix him up with Michael Parenti who made a brief appearance.?

I watched ‘Manufacturing Dissent’ last night, an interesting, but vicious critique of Michael Moore. Maybe he deserves it, maybe he doesn’t, I don’t really care, Moore doesn’t rate anywhere near the likes of Parenti, Zinn or Greenwald, to name just a few, who represent the left.

He deserves it. Moore’s modus operandi is to spin the truth so far out of context it fits his world view . . . as does Parenti when he downplays the autrosities committed by Joe Stalin. Anyone who is still lost in the doctrine of Marxist revolution (like Parenti) is in complete and total denial of the utter failures that system has produced over the past 90 years. I mean, how many more decades is this nonsense going to persist?

Regarding Roger & Me, Moore spun that one with the deliberate omission of the realities GM was facing. I don’t hear anyone talking about those realities today . . . I don’t hear anyone decrying how evil and greedy GM is anymore. Sorta hard to do when they were recently setting record losses unprecedented by any corporation in American History.  And it’s awfully interesting to note that the union has come around to the realization GM cannot afford their totally absurd demands. The recorded history of GM since Roger & Me was filmed has completely destroyed every stupid and naive premise Moore made in that lame movie.

I also thought Michael’s treatment of Charlton Heston was a bit vindictive and unfair, but I thought that before watching ‘Manufacturing Dissent’.

When Michael Moore is on one of his misguided missions of propaganda, don’t get in his way.

A couple of things, I wondered why Moore made it so difficult for the film makers to interview him, that didn’t seem to make sense.

Simple to answer . . . Moore doesn’t want, nor can he stand scrutiny. Can you not figure out why?

He rails against the greed of evil medical insurance corporations, yet he never produces concrete evidence demonstrating that “greed”. And lord knows, there’s enough financial data out there to make a case if there was one. Meanwhile, he promotes the virtues of socialized medicine without mentioning the problems and failures of every socialized system in the world has experienced. Simply put, Mike avoids the hot seat for a reason. He can’t take the heat.

Don’t you find it interesting that all these advocates of Marxism, in whatever form they propose, cannot point to one single working model anywhere in the world that actually functions? In practice Marx’s theories only produce dysfuntional economic systems. One has to wonder if Marx were alive today, would he be a Marxist? If he was an honest guy, I really doubt it.

Meanwhile, I’m still waiting for someone like Parenti to create a business entity where a bunch of ignoramuses like Michael Moore control the “means” of production (that being managing the capital, assets, equipment, etc. of the business). People like him spend a lifetime lost in fantasy never experiencing the joy of having to deal with real employees, real taxes, real government regulations, real business plans, real application of theory, real workable designs, real customers, real markets and economic conditions, real competition, real unreliable suppliers, real lending institutions, real capital outlay, real costs, real risks, real production problems, real life . . . and most of all . . . real hard-earned profits which are necessary to sustain any business . . . you know, like GM.

We all have the rather unfortunate tendency to play up what is best for ‘our side’. The evils of Michael Moore cannot be ignored as they present a threat to mankind, seems to be the underlying theme of some people’s thoughts on here. Yet mention the evils of American policies that kill or oppress, something which Moore hasn’t acheived through his docos...except for that rabbitt, and well, it was all in good fun, and of course in the name of democracy. Of course I’m using hyperbole here, but I hope you get the point. Defending the indefensible seems to be the name of the game, seeing there has been so much defence of American political policy, and the previous posts criticism of Michael Parenti...http://thirdworldtraveler.com/Caribbean/US_Aggression_Cuba.html One last question, has any country invaded America, has any country taken direct, aggressive action towards America,? if so please let me know. Now, how many countries have America invaded or taken aggressive action against?, again, please let me know

One last question, has any country invaded America, has any country taken direct, aggressive action towards America,? if so please let me know.

Well at least Mexico, Great Britain, Germany and Japan have. There have been others depending on how you want to define “taken direct, aggressive action towards America,”

Now, how many countries have America invaded or taken aggressive action against?, again, please let me know

A few depending on how you define “invaded or taken aggressive action against”.

I’m not sure what any of that has to do with Moore’s lying, but if you want to discuss America’s actions in a specific War or “Invasion” or “aggressive action” you can start a thread in the forums.

Mike B, it has nothing to do with Moore lying in a direct sense, in fact my point was eggagerated and probably out of proportion. However so is the thinking that Michael Moore makes any difference in the big scheme of things. He has never been able to swing an election has he,? he’s never toppled a government, he just tells a few lies. Politicians do that everyday, with probably far greater negative influence. However, if you guys didn’t think that somehow the films or propaganda of Moore were so devestating to the American way of life, this forum wouldn’t exist. Personally I fail to see what the big deal is, I mean in this thread Rann Aridorn assumes that I should hold Moore accountable for not keeping his word, why,? Moore is not a politician, he doesn’t hold sway over the decisions made for the American people, he’s just a film maker. Now you could say he’s a documentary film maker and as such should present facts and be truthful, and you would be right, but are you going to tell me all right wing propaganda is truth personified.? Fact of the matter is in ten years time Moore wont be remembered for changing history, he will just be another face on the list of past Academy Award winners.

Mike B, it has nothing to do with Moore lying in a direct sense, in fact my point was eggagerated and probably out of proportion. However so is the thinking that Michael Moore makes any difference in the big scheme of things. He has never been able to swing an election has he,? he’s never toppled a government, he just tells a few lies.

Michael Moore does in fact influence people every day. The reason I’m here is because back during the hey day of BFC, I started hearing people quoting BS statistics and repeating BS rhetoric about guns. When I asked where such info came from people told me BFC.

Politicians do that everyday, with probably far greater negative influence.

Yes many if not most politicians do that daily. They don’t claim to be “documentanarians” though, and if you had spent some time researching this site and it’s users you would have seen we tend to have a general disdain for politicians on both sides of the aisle.

However, if you guys didn’t think that somehow the films or propaganda of Moore were so devestating to the American way of life, this forum wouldn’t exist. Personally I fail to see what the big deal is, I mean in this thread Rann Aridorn assumes that I should hold Moore accountable for not keeping his word, why,? Moore is not a politician, he doesn’t hold sway over the decisions made for the American people, he’s just a film maker. Now you could say he’s a documentary film maker and as such should present facts and be truthful, and you would be right, but are you going to tell me all right wing propaganda is truth personified.? Fact of the matter is in ten years time Moore wont be remembered for changing history, he will just be another face on the list of past Academy Award winners.

Well gee you are at Moorewatch.com not americawatch or bushwatch, or politicianwatch, what do you think we would talk about?

Red Star,

Moore is well-know in Europe and Canada.  So are his films.  Thus, many people form much of their opinion of this country from Mike’s propaganda.

Mike B, you heard “fraudulent statistics and false information about guns from viewers of Bowling For Columbine”.??!! Did you write to the President about this awful dissemination of fraudulent propaganda.? If not I suggest you do so immediately, subversive rhetoric of this sort is a threat to national security, and is capable of causing anarchy on the streets.! “Politicians don’t claim to be documentarians”? well in that case they have a good reason to lie, they aren’t making films, they’re just leading the country. Thankyou for proving my point, hysteria over Moore is illogical, and thanks also for pointing out what forum I’m on, I get this one mixed up with Ripley’s ‘Believe It Or Not’ sometimes. And Buzz, people from Europe and Canada formulate opinions on an entire country from one filmaker and a handful of documentaries,? are these people illiterate.?

Isn’t Red Star just wonderful.  Here he is essentially talking about how Moore is allowed to make up his shit and speak about it.  But at the same time he seems to have this massive problem with others spending time refuting and debunking moore’s lies.  And here he is whining about us doing it.  Please tell us you sniveling little idiot, how is our discussion of moore causing so many problems in the world that you need to come here and comment on it.  I mean afterall if there’s something wrong and pointless for us to do it to moore, then you’re just even more wrong for what you’re doing.

so Red Star at what point does spreading lies become a cause for concern? this country may have legislation passed based on lies from sicko, legislation which will make the healthcare system worse. people will support this legislation based on lies MM spread in his film. and maybe euros and canucks are illiterate cause they stand up and cheer for MM and his movies, they believe he is a modern day prophet exposing the evil corruptness in America. check out the way the treat him when he goes to cannes festival.

Buzzion, I never claimed to be a documentarian.! Chas, your country is actually going to base its legislation on a documentary,? why not change your constitution to fit in with a Captain America comic book.?

No you’re just demonstrating why you deserve nothing more than derision and to be laughed at.

The American legislation rests on one documentary, Canadians and Europeans base their opinion of a country on three or four documentaries, and I deserve to be laughed at.???

the movement for socialized medicine started long ago. this movie of lies just reinforces false beliefs and adds to them. are you denying the power of tv and film to influence people? even those superior euros and canucks fall victim to advertising. its a neat trick your trying to pull, it aint mikey’s fault a bunch of rubes and hicks believe him is it?

I don’t know what “rubes and hicks” are Chas, but if what you’re proposing is true, America must be full of them.

oh i acknowlegede superiority of all foreigners. thats why american fashions never pop up overseas, american movie stars never recognized or mobbed when they leave this country. no advertising outside of America cause foreigners dont fall victim to propaganda of any kind. can you imagine what a failure mcdonalds would have if it tried to open up in europe? or if coke started shipping overseas? nope, film and tv works just on stupid americans.

"Film and TV works just on stupid American’s” if your legislation is going to be tilted in favour of Michael Moore’s films, then yes, “stupid Americans” is an understatement of gigantic proportions.

yeah, europeans would never fall for that. guess riefenstahl and goebbels were complete failures.

You’re comparing Michael Moore and his films to Nazi propaganda now.? This conversation is slowly slipping down the rabbitt hole, and not the one on ‘Roger And Me’either.  Does this mean that soon we shall see an army of fat, baseball hat wearing American’s goosestepping their way into smaller countries and declaring themselves the master race.....shit, on second thought, you may have a point.

And Buzz, people from Europe and Canada formulate opinions on an entire country from one filmaker and a handful of documentaries,? are these people illiterate.?

Amazing, ain’t it?  Then, propaganda is often effective.  Look at how many people believe that health insurance companies in the U.S. routinely deny treatments solely to increase profits.  That opinion is based on what they saw in Sicko . . . no independent fact checking . . . nothing . . . just blind faith that Moore knows what he’s talking about.  Look at how many show up on this site with the silly notion that health care in Cuba is state of the art for everyone ‘cause Mikey said so.

Humans don’t have to be illiterate to be gullible.

So Buzz, you agree with Chas that Moore’s films have the capacity to influence American legislation.? In Australia Moore is hugely popular, but no one with a functioning mind would even conceive that he could influence our politics or way of thinking. I don’t know about American’s, Canadian’s or European’s, but Australian’s seem to have the capacity to grasp the fact that films are just that, films, not doctrines to influence votes. If the thinking of your average American runs counter to that point of view, and I very much doubt it does, then I will never consider visiting there, I may come out of a theatre with a desperate urge to put on a funny hat, buy a whip and become an archeolgist.

Fact of the matter is in ten years time Moore wont be remembered for changing history, he will just be another face on the list of past Academy Award winners.

Opinions change history, Red Star.  Moore is just one of many who promote the same agenda.  The difference is he reaches more people than most.

So now you’re telling me that a fat guy, with no political position, who has made half a dozen documentaries and written a few books has the potential to change history.? I can tell you now it wont be Australian history, and if it’s American history you guys must be a nation of mindless drones. The fact is it is utter bullshit that the majority of American’s believe, or could even be influenced by Moore, or any other documentary film maker for that matter. And to even suggest a documentary like ‘Sicko’ could change the legislation of a country the size of the United States is absurd beyond belief, Moore sings to the choir, those who buy what Moore sells don’t need his documentaries to convince them.

So now you’re telling me that a fat guy, with no political position, who has made half a dozen documentaries and written a few books has the potential to change history.?

Why does someone have to hold a political position to influence opinion?  Was Karl Marx ever a high level political figure?

Listening to black swastika (oops, red star) reminds me of listening to Vladimir Pozner back in the 80s… No facts, just evasions and mis direction.

You guys have all hit on it. It’s okay for Moore to make these movies but your lame for calling him on it / his errors. Neaner nearner… Whatever don’t waste your breath. He’s just an apologist and he’ll just keep going in circles with you. You may not be lame for fact checking Moore, but putting a lot of time into BS… that is lame…

Posted by Buzz on 10/06/2007 at 10:17 PM (Link to this comment | )

“Was Karl Marx ever a high level political figure?”

The bum never got off Engels couch…

Please Red Star, I had higher expectations of you and your intelligence, yet here you are playing word games and “acting dumb.” You know ideas can be dangerous, and when enough people get behind the idea, yes, governments and laws can be changed. (cf Karl Marx)

Very good guys, when faced with a riduculous concept make it look like I am playing games. This conversation veered into the realm of stupidity long ago, Slore’s comments are highly amusing, have you closed your eyes to some of the comments on here,? the “politicians not claiming to be documentarians was a real winner.” And Karl Marx versus Michael Moore,? now there’s a real great comparison, almost as good as Chas’s comparison with Goebells, in this context Slore you sound like an ignoramus. Finally Bismark, good ideas, or even ideas of merit may come close to changing history, can you please give me a list of Michael Moore ideas that will be printed in history books of the future, I can’t wait. You know for people who discredit Moore, you actually give him more credit than some of his fans. Michael Moore changing history, Michael Moore playing a part changing American legislation, Michael Moore influencing three nations, America, Canada and Europe, and finally enter Slore to deny all this bullshit and say I’m an apologist for Moore,? I am not the one projecting onto him the power of Napoleon.

Listening to black swastika (oops, red star) reminds me of listening to Vladimir Pozner back in the 80s… No facts, just evasions and mis direction.

I remember watching Pozner on Nightline back in the late 70’s or 80’s I think. Since he was raised in America he spoke perfect English. Since he worked for TASS he spoke perfect propaganda.

When the Soviet Union fell, his take on the matter was perhaps the most striking reversal of journalist spin I ever witnessed. I’ve often wondered since how someone could have been that dishonest. But as a voice for TASS, he was the best propagandist they ever had.

Posted by Buzz on 10/07/2007 at 12:29 AM (Link to this comment | )

“But as a voice for TASS, he was the best propagandist they ever had.”

He was great at his job alright. I remember when Ray Briem accidentally ‘discovered’ him. He was a conservative late night talk show host and he called into the USSR to try to get an interview with someone and Vlad answered the phone. Ray accidentally made him a star. Their discussions were classic… at least Ray was skeptical (translation: knew he was full of it) of everything he said and debated him on everything… unlike the useful idiots like Phil.

Posted by Red Star on 10/07/2007 at 12:28 AM (Link to this comment | )

“in this context Slore you sound like an ignoramus.”

What ‘context’? Calling you on using communist symbolism for your handle? You’re the idiot for not realizing how offensive that is. You may as well be calling yourself black swastika… Precious little difference between the communists and the German national socialists… Its not really a difference, I guess, but if you run a tally… the communists murdered a lot more people.

In this case, it’s in no way a Godwin… as I’m not comparing you to a nazi to make you look worse… as you can’t be worse than a communist… I’m just doing it to add perspective to how offensive your handle is since you can’t see it… since your an idiot..

Sorry Slore I was influenced by that powerhouse of American politics,you know the one, the history changing, legislature making, nation conquering Michael Moore. I believe this mind altering influence of Moore began occurring shortly after I read that masterpiece of political ideology ‘Dude, Where’s My Country’ and a visit to Canada. Now you and the rest of the paranoics on here can get back to battling the man who in your opinion, is the Goebells and Marx of the 21st Century.

Posted by Red Star on 10/07/2007 at 12:59 AM (Link to this comment | )

“Sorry Slore I was influenced by that powerhouse of American politics,you know the one, the history changing, legislature making, nation conquering Michael Moore. I believe this mind altering influence of Moore began occurring shortly after I read that masterpiece of political ideology ‘Dude, Where’s My Country’ and a visit to Canada. Now you and the rest of the paranoics on here can get back to battling the man who in your opinion, is the Goebells and Marx of the 21st Century”

Whatever BS…

Now you and the rest of the paranoics on here can get back to battling the man who in your opinion, is the Goebells and Marx of the 21st Century.

Isn’t it interesting how Red Star likes to characterize what folks say?

Apparently, he doesn’t think Moore has any influence with the public in Europe, Canada, etc.  Funny, but I seem to remember “Sicko” being used on Havana Hospital’s website to promote Cuba’s health tourism industry.

I guess Red Star and Fidel Castro might have a difference of opinion on this one.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ON A POGO STICK, red star… could you possibly be more intentionally obtuse???

You know damn well the power of propaganda throughout history.
And no, it most certainly is not unfair in the slightest to lump Moore in with Goebbels or Marx in that context, and you know that, as well.

Propaganda is propaganda. It serves one purpose, and one only. This is what they did, this is what Moore is doing; trying to change the political landscape through shifts in the zeitgeist.
They inject their ideas into the public sphere, forming new shottenfreud, in an effort to get the public to fall into line behind them.

To claim that the comparison between Moore and his propagandist predecessors is silly shows nothing less than either an extreme ignorance of how public opinion is shifted, and how powerful that can be, or an intentional, “Bagdhad Bob” style of denial that is almost humorous in how incredibly stupid and pathetically apologetic for Moore that it makes you look.

For the record, I don’t think you’re a stupid person, red.
I do think you habitually take up stupid causes, however, and in the course of promoting them, say stupid things.
And in the end, does it really matter whether or not you actually are stupid, if everyone thinks you as such, anyway?

I’m sure you fancy yourself to be a free, independent thinker.
So I urge you to take a step (or a dozen) back, and take an objective look at what you’re saying.

You don’t even have to be honest with us. Just be honest with yourself… at least as a start.

...done it?

...okay, so now do you see why it’s silly to claim that Moore has no power over policy, without an elected position?
...do you also see why your veiled claims to Aussie superiority are just plain silly?
...how about some of your other positions?

If your answer to any of these has been “no”, then I would suggest a sabbatical to somewhere quiet, peaceful and conducive to serious
introspection.

If that doesn’t work, then I can offer you no further advice, other than to seek professional help… most preferably in the form of an apolitical history professor.

By the way Red Star, your buddy Parenti makes the same old fallacious argument about Cuba that all of his ilk make.  Try this for an example of an intellectual black hole:

Under Fidel, Cuba has created a more egalitarian society by eliminating all U.S. influence on the Island.  Meanwhile, the mean old U.S. still has a trade embargo on Cuba which should be lifted.

Translation:  Cuba’s system of communism under Castro eliminated all private enterprise on the Island.  Fidel wanted nothing to do with capitalism.  This policy has produced a dysfunctional economic system that has trouble sustaining itself, especially in a more egalitarian society where everyone is dirt poor and there is no investment capital.  Hence, the solution is to lift the trade embargo so Cuba’s dysfunctional economic system can be enhanced by association with those evil capitalist that were kicked off the Island back in the 60’s for being . . . uh . . . evil capitalist.

Here’s what Parenti doesn’t mention . . . Fidel really doesn’t want free trade with the U.S. He just wants to discredit capitalism by portraying poor little Cuba as a victim of a vindictive Yankee “blockade”—the misnomer Castro deliberately uses for the embargo—which he claims is inhumane.  Well, Mr. Parenti, is communism a viable system or not?  I mean, why does a vibrant communist economy want or need any assistance from anyone?  I thought Fidel had all the solutions necessary to create a perfect self-sufficient egalitarian society. 

People like Parenti who are engaged in revising history have such weak, contradictory arguments, it’s pathetic.  That you don’t see this is proof propaganda works.  And look at all the people who buy Fidel’s BS . . . how many times has the UN passed a resolution condemning the embargo . . . something like 184 to 4 last I heard?  That Cuba can’t generate enough wealth to pay for their needs seems to escape the world community.  Maybe that’s exactly why they aren’t buying much from Europe or anyone else either.

And of course, you feel the need to post a link to provide all us ignorant folks with vital information from Parenti about what’s really going on with the Cuban situation.

Tell us, Red Star, what are you willing to give up for free intermittent electricity?

If your answer to any of these has been “no”, then I would suggest a sabbatical to somewhere quiet, peaceful and conducive to serious introspection.

I hear the weather in Cuba is wonderful . . . after the hurricane season is over.

Red Star, are you trying to tell me that Michael Moore doesn’t help shape public opinion?  I’m not saying he’s omnipotent, but he certainly does his best to portray a singular worldview (Republicans=bad, Capitalism=bad, Bush=bad) which much of the world views as being perfectly descriptive of America and Americans.  The man was just on the most-watched talk show in this country (and perhaps history?) with barely a voice to counter him!  Are you telling me that viewers (who may not know much about the health “crisis") don’t walk away from that with an opinion that, hey, maybe I’ll need to vote for Hillary because she’s going to fix this crisis?

Mike B, you heard “fraudulent statistics and false information about guns from viewers of Bowling For Columbine”.??!! Did you write to the President about this awful dissemination of fraudulent propaganda.? If not I suggest you do so immediately, subversive rhetoric of this sort is a threat to national security, and is capable of causing anarchy on the streets.!

I think you might want to take a look at the concept of free speech, it’s part of our first amendment and supported by other of our bill of rights. The gist of it is that Moore can do and say pretty much anything he wants and we are allowed to critisize his statements and actions.

In other words not only would it be pointless for me to contact the “President” of anything, but rather illegal for me or any “President” to silence Moore. At the same time I’m am allowed to criticize Moore and his arguments. I realize this may be a foreign concept to a communist, but this is how we function in the free world.

It’s really very simple, Red Star. Michael Moore gave his word that he would expose any corruption in a Democratic-controlled Congress. He has not done so.

When a person gives his word, he should keep it. It doesn’t matter if the person is a politician, a plumber, a female, a transsexual, or a fat, disgusting filmmaker who profits from the misery of others.

That is the essence of Jim’s post. Moore broke his word, and therefore everything he says should be considered suspect and not trusted.

Now, instead of clouding the issue, please respond to Jim’s actual post. Should a man keep his word, or not? Should a man who breaks his word be trusted?

Hm. It seems the Red Star may have fallen.

He’s hiding in the forums, extolling the glories of Che and the Revolution.

The Germans themselves have long described their country as “The Land of Poets and Thinkers”. So might’ve happened there anno ‘39? “Oops. Twas the Heat of Passion.”
Well after their minor “lapse”, you know, with Hitler and stuff, they quickly donned kaffiyehs chanting: “Never again! Beware the Beginnings (of evil stuff)” at Green Party rallies, supporting the actions of their RAF terrorists for the good of all noble proles, by torching cars, throwing Molotovs and rocks at police.

No WW3 happened so it was all in good fun. Not all evil is bad - that is, if its good evil.

Red Star tut-tuts as benign and harmless the constant spreading of lies and propaganda a la Moore because most everyone outside the US is a poet and thinker, too, and would ever fall for them, much less turn to violence for any reason. Its the Thinking Man’s entertainment, watching the Non-Thinkers get all flusterated.

P.S. I happen to know that Red Star is gay.