They won’t apologize Jim.  You can’t expect people blind to the obvious truth to recant.

First off, have to say I had to Google “bilious” to make sure that it meant what I thought it meant. Yup, big word that means “peevish”.

Wow. I’ve been a long time lurker here, and frequent commenter on Jim’s other site, and I still have a very hard time believing the ginourmous size balls that Moore has. He’s trying to buy simpathy here.

“Look, our health system sux so bad hard working American’s can’t get good health care. To prove this, I will just be the saint I am and send my enemy enough money to pay his insurance bills. I’ll even do it anonymously, because its out of the charity of my heart, even though thats someone I have threatened with a law suit in the past. I am bigger than that, and want to show my compassion.”

Now Moore wants to put Jim in a no win position here. If you don’t know him and his site, and you see this you might think that Moore was wise and generous. So if Jim accepts the money, obviously he’s a hypocrite for taking the money, yet still being hateful. If he doesn’t take the money, he’s seen as petty, and seen as the smaller man. Its all bullshit, but this is what Moore does. Fuck with the facts, and try to make him seem like a Saint.

Me? I keep the money. I personally could care less who gives it to me. I"m still me, I’m just me with 12000 dollars. Jim maybe easy and cheap, but hell who ain’t?, that does not mean this buys his ethics.  It just buys his insurance.

Ah, the usual cock-suckling adoration of the media towards Moore.

“I want him to know that it was done with all the best intentions,”

Notice he doesn’t say best for WHO. For himself, obviously.

“I went back and forth about whether to use that material,”

No he didn’t. He absolutely planned to use it from the moment he decided to send the money.

and that that’s the way I think we should live.”

This is a bald-faced lie, considering that Moore has avoided, mocked, or attacked anyone attempting anything vaguely resembling his own tactics on him. He obviously does not believe that “we” should live that way… again, Moore wants one standard for himself and another for everyone else.

I usually never say this, but I fucking knew it. I knew Jim would be in the film, and probably at the end of the film. This whole situation seems too perfect as the “final joke” in Moores movie to end with a chuckle of the liberals showing how much better they are than the conservatives.

I’m actually kinda freaked out about how dead on I was with my intuition this time, but then again, I’m sure a lot of people were there with me. Some of this stuff was obvious from the start.

and that that’s the way I think we should live.

Yes, Mike. We should live our lives exploiting people and putting them in unfair situations for a movie…

Jim, stay strong and rise above brother.

“I want him to know that it was done with all the best intentions,” said Moore, adding that he planned to phone Kenefick personally after the press conference. (According to Kenefick’s blog, Moore left him a voice-mail message later on Saturday.) “I went back and forth about whether to use that material,” Moore went on. “I asked myself, would you be doing this if it weren’t in the film? I decided that I would, and I should, and that that’s the way I think we should live.”

This one makes me wonder how much it cost Moore and any other producers to actually send the 9/11 workers to Cuba and film and edit the expedition?  If the total costs were more than treatment in the U.S. would have cost, then I have a very hard time believing that he would have done it even if it weren’t for the film.  Has he given away any other money without using the recipients in his films somehow?

The best of intentions means one thing, to everyone I know: to do something for someone else without any expectation of getting anything back for yourself, other than the personal satisfaction of having done some good.  Obviously, he did turn this into a way to get something for himself, so obviously, his intentions were not “the best.”

The best of intentions means one thing, to everyone I know: to do something for someone else without any expectation of getting anything back for yourself, other than the personal satisfaction of having done some good.  Obviously, he did turn this into a way to get something for himself, so obviously, his intentions were not “the best.”

The choir he’s preaching to will buy it, though, sadly enough. As we can already see, since today’s been pretty much nothing but said choir storming the gates.

Sorry I missed most of the party. Jim, hang in there. It’s obvious to anyone who is not retarded what is going on here, and no one cares what retards think.

I. AM. FUCKING. SEETHING!

That dishonest, calculating, slimy piece of garbage has really gone too far.

I’m seriously at a loss for words, here.
I can’t believe anyone would be so incredibly evil and
manipulative. (No, not even Moore)

Jim, I swear to you… if you need anything at all..
[B][I]ANYTHING[/I][/B] it takes to bring the fight to Moore and redeem your name that will obviously be trashed by this disgusting piece of sub-human autonomous lard, you name it.
If it is even close to being within my power, I’m all over it.

For the record, the resources at my disposal are;

The full resources of my graphic firm.
The resources of my partner’s web-design company.
The resources of a small (13 trucks), north-east coast trucking company.
Not much money, I’m afraid…
the dogged tenacity of an incredibly pissed off man who happens to have an unreasonable amount of free time for someone holding down a full time day job, and running his own company…
And whatever else you can think of.

JUST NAME IT.

I cannot even begin to put into words how much I want to take this douchebag down!!!

Wanna look like the bigger guy, Jim?  Send a check for $12,000 back to Michael Moore.  Then we’ll see if you have the courage of your convictions.  Of course, you’ll probably have to go into the kind of health-care-related debt that Michael Moore indicts in his latest film, but until you do it, you’re willingly and hypocritically abetting Moore’s alleged publicity scheme.

Wanna look like the bigger guy, Jim?  Send a check for $12,000 back to Michael Moore.  Then we’ll see if you have the courage of your convictions.  Of course, you’ll probably have to go into the kind of health-care-related debt that Michael Moore indicts in his latest film, but until you do it, you’re willingly and hypocritically abetting Moore’s alleged publicity scheme.

I’m guessing this is what Moore’s “charity” was intended to buy. His fantards demanding that you send him money.

Wanna look like the martyr guy, Variable? Carve “Bush made me” in your leg and then set yourself on fire.

Dude, just call him back, thank him and keep it civil.  Obviously he didn’t REALLY do much thinking about whether or not to put this in the film.  If I were in his position I would have sent you the check, called you and assured that I wouldn’t make it public unless you wanted it public.  But still, if you want to be the bigger man, just thank him and let it go.  After all, you said yourself you’re not a fan of HMOs, so you’re not exactly being ideologically hypocritical.

If I was a Thinker I’d now suspect Moore’s actually a Bushitler shill quisling trying to distract form global warming with his new film. Cuz thats whats gonna kill us all dead within the next decade, not free health care. Thats what the Thinkers say.

The noble proletariat rises up and demands free health care, so to save face Bushitler uses its funding as an excuse for the US to withdraw its babykillers from Iraq.

Boom .Everyones dead.

You disgust me as a human being. Completely and totally.  Regardless of what you think the man’s motives were, he gave you the money you needed for your wifes health care and well being.  What in the world would your life be like now if it wasnt for that money.  I sat there last february and watched my grandmother expire after battle liver failure. I would have had NOTHING to say if someone had provided the money that would have aided in her having even 2 extra months of life. You were an ungrateful prick even before Moore came out and said he was gonna put it in the movie.  If anything he is more justified now just to show how ungrateful some American’s are and how partisan crap has helping to ruin our country.  What you should have done upon finding out that Moor donated the money was to send him a personal thank you note and asked him kindly not to publicize the occurence. But you didnt. Because just like moore you crave attention. The only difference being that the attention you get doesnt shed light on any sort of legitimate political conversation or issue, only your bitterness and ego.  Im done. I feel like throwing up now.

Regardless of what you think the man’s motives were, he gave you the money you needed for your wifes health care and well being.

So if I gave your mother a free house because I’d hidden a trapdoor in it, and used that trap door to later sneak in and rape her, you’d consider her trying to tell people I did it or harboring a bit of anger on the issue to make her a horrible person too, right? I mean, I gave her a free house, after all. Just because I did it so that I could rape her doesn’t make me a bad person, does it?

Viewtiful, that’s not a very good impression to give Jim of us leftists, now is it?  And that goes doubly for everyone else sending hate mail.  I’m sure these boards don’t scratch the surface compared to what shows up in his Inbox

You were an ungrateful prick even before Moore came out and said he was gonna put it in the movie.

He thanked the person who donated the money, even when not knowing who it was, even after finding out it was moore he directly thanked him.  The only time Moore has said it was in the movie is after the movie is already done and ready for release.  So you really need to get your timeline of events in order.

What you should have done upon finding out that Moor donated the money was to send him a personal thank you note and asked him kindly not to publicize the occurence. But you didnt.

He received the money almost a year ago.  He didn’t get information about it being moore until this week.  Asking him not to make it public is pointless because its already in the movie, and likely has been in there for some months.

Congrats you’re a moron.

And really the trackbacks on the libtards are absolutely hilarious.

Wanna look like the bigger guy, Jim?  Send a check for $12,000 back to Michael Moore.

Wanna look like the bigger, guy, Variable?
Take that extra $500 or so you got in last year’s tax return,
due to the Bush tax cuts, and send a check back to the IRS.

Now, for all the other idiots who still can’t seem to grasp the whole point, here, let me try to make it as clear as possible.

1> In spite of the flagrantly incorrect “news” reports, Jim was never going to shut this site down because he couldn’t afford it, due to his wife’s illness.
That is a lie.

2> Jim’s wife was never in danger of not receiving the care she needed due to a lack of funds on Jim’s part.
That is a lie.

3> Moore did not send the money out of a sense of decency
or altruism. He sent it specifically to do what he is doing; to attempt to defame and discredit Jim. He never had any qualms about doing so, or plans for this to unfold in any other way.
That is a lie.

If any of you still do not understand these very basic facts, then it is most likely that you are far too completely lost in the thrall of Michael Moore and his propaganda to ever be redeemed.

I’m sorry… but there’s simply a limit to how disconnected a person can be from reality before they are beyond the point of return.
If you dispute even a single one of the above truths, then you are one of those people.

For God’s sake, people… if you truly are a Moore fan, then recognize that the whole environment of Moore’s films is a questioning of popular beliefs.
Moore has now become the ‘establishment’ he has asked you to question for so long.

...so question him.
...question his means, and his motives.
...do you really, in your heart of hearts, with complete intellectual honesty, believe for one moment that this entire debacle was not 100% premeditated for Moore’s own gain?

...honestly?

They’re saying we’re “pwned”? Nevermind that this in no way invalidates anything we’ve ever said about Moore. They’re just reveling in his attempted “Gotcha!” They’re claiming Jim is horrible for not being “appropriately grateful” for Moore’s unbounded and unchecked charity, and at the same time congratulating Moore for his insulting slam to Jim.

Nasty little things, aren’t they?

Yeah, it looked like a cheap stunt, but it was a cheap stunt that helped you when you needed help.  If your fans don’t want you to keep the money, they should come up with a way to pay Michael Moore back.  You don’t need graphics or web design, you need cash.

If Bush wanted to come out of the woodwork and pay all of my medical bills (want to see the stack of them?  The $42,000 bill I was given for three injections to stave off my back surgery, that didn’t work...so I had my $21,000 surgery - ironic that the surgery was half the price of the injections that were supposedly to maybe temporarily prevent the surgery...which is really a license to print money), yeah if Bush wanted to send me, oh, $50k to get me back on my feet, I’d still thank him, and still hate him.  You’re allowed to do the same.  Michael Moore found a way to help you *and* help himself.  A nicer person would’ve just helped you, but that’s not how Michael Moore has made his living.  Nonetheless, you were helped, and he was the person who helped.  It’s nothing to be ashamed of, and if you can, take full advantage of the publicity you have now.  Make more money from it, get your medical bills paid for five years or ten years.  Don’t just have your supporters calling Michael Moore names, have them figure out a way to help you with this publicity.  Because this is money-making publicity you’re getting now...use it!

I don’t feel one way or the other about Michael Moore.  I realize that he does what he does for show, and I’ve heard from a friend of a friend that off-screen he’s a jerk, but I can’t deny that he’s shining a light on things that needed to be seen and talked about.  It’s much like the Morgan Spurlock “30 Days” shows - he knew what he wanted the beginning, middle, and end to be, so he made sure his story got told. 

I’m not going to offer you graphics or whiny bandwagon chants of how terrible Michael Moore is.  Yeah, he used you.  I’m not swimming in money, and I have my own health problems, but I’m going to make a small donation to your Paypal account, and your ranting buddies should do the same.  In fact, they should send more.

I don’t feel one way or the other about Michael Moore.  I realize that he does what he does for show, and I’ve heard from a friend of a friend that off-screen he’s a jerk, but I can’t deny that he’s shining a light on things that needed to be seen and talked about.  It’s much like the Morgan Spurlock “30 Days” shows - he knew what he wanted the beginning, middle, and end to be, so he made sure his story got told.

Ah the “Fake but Accurate” mantra.  Moore and Spurlock both thrive on it, and people use it to justify what they do.

I thought I made a pretty simple point, but clearly this hatred of Michael Moore has deranged some of the “monkeys” who support this site.

Let’s break it down.

Jim accepted a gift from an anonymous donor.

Jim needed the money.

Jim later finds out that the money came from Michael Moore.

Jim doesn’t like Michael Moore.

Jim should find a way to return the money, even if it means returning to the debt-ridden state he was in when he received it.

Jim fails to return the money.

Jim is a hypocrite who is helping Michael Moore make a point about health care and his critics.

Don’t just have your supporters calling Michael Moore names, have them figure out a way to help you with this publicity.

Okay, first off, Jim doesn’t “have” us doing anything. Unlike Moore fans, we do not take marching orders. We do what the fuck we want. If we’re insulting Moore, it’s for our own reasons.

Second, if you’re telling Jim to use the publicity… and do what? Because this site has always been about exposing Moore’s lies, cheap stunts, and venting our spleens about how aggravated he makes us. Which is what he’s doing, and what we’re doing, so what exactly should we change?

I’m not swimming in money, and I have my own health problems, but I’m going to make a small donation to your Paypal account, and your ranting buddies should do the same.

Wow. Pulling Moore’s stunt on a smaller scale less than 24 hours after you learned of it. Not only following in his footsteps, but ripping him off. Classy.

By the way, Variable, I’m looking into real estate. Does your mom like ranch houses or two-stories?

viewtifulj,

I feel like you did just throw up.

Are you illiterate, or just lazy. Jimk repeatedly said that he was grateful for the help, before and after he knew it was from Moore. You’re making things up. He also said that he was suspicious of the donor’s motive. It turns out that his suspicion was well-founded.

Assuming someone had come forward to give your grandma 2 extra months, you would have had no problem with her story being used, without permission, to make a political point? Or a fucking joke? This shit is funny to you people and you’re disgusted with him as a human being? 

If Bush wanted to come out of the woodwork and pay all of my medical bills…

How about if he chose you specifically because he knew you’d been critical of him in the past, didn’t tell you who he was, then ran around a year later telling people what a great guy he was for helping you? If he made it into a “funny bit”? How about if after that a bunch of little pecker heads started calling you names for accepting help from someone you had been critical of in the past? Or saying that you couldn’t criticize him anymore? Kind of a different situation, right?

Jim is a hypocrite who is helping Michael Moore make a point about health care and his critics.

Find a single post in which jimk has ever claimed that there is nothing wrong with health care in the US. If an opponent of socialized care had given Jim the money, would that have constituted an argument against socialized health care?

By the way, there’s an elephant in the room that everyone seems to avoiding here.

Jim couldn’t afford proper health care for his wife.

Regardless of Jim’s or Moore’s motives, don’t you think the fact that Jim had to accept charity to be made financially whole again says something about our health care system today?  Why aren’t any of the artmonkeys or Aridorns the least bit angry about that?  Can’t we admit that the health care system in the US is fundamentally broken?

Regardless of Jim’s or Moore’s motives, don’t you think the fact that Jim had to accept charity to be made financially whole again says something about our health care system today?

No. And learn to read, retard, we’ve addressed your “point” several times. Echoing it over and over will not make it any more valid.

Regardless of Jim’s or Moore’s motives, don’t you think the fact that Jim had to accept charity to be made financially whole again says something about our health care system today?  Why aren’t any of the artmonkeys or Aridorns the least bit angry about that?  Can’t we admit that the health care system in the US is fundamentally broken?

Yes. No one denies that. The debate is about what we should do to fix it. This discussion is not about that debate, however, it’s about Moore and his scumbag antics.

Explain in detail how jimk not returning the money makes him a hypocrite and shows moore to be right about healthcare and his critics.

Because, jimk is not opposed to michael moore making money.  The only person in who should be opposed to moore making money is moore, because he’s pretty much a socialist utilizing a capitalist system.  So since jimk obviously believes moore is making money legitimately, although by stating lies deceptions and half-truths, there is no taint to the money.

The money is also given in a manner of charity, not as universal healthcare.  Jimk has absolutely no problem with charity organizations helping out with medical expenses for people.  In fact he stated that if it had been taxpayers money, he would not have accepted it.

So how is he a hypocrite by not paying back a donation?

Can’t we admit that the health care system in the US is fundamentally broken?

Can you admit that putting the government in charge of it won’t fix it?

I asked:
<quote>
Regardless of Jim’s or Moore’s motives, don’t you think the fact that Jim had to accept charity to be made financially whole again says something about our health care system today?
</quote>

Aridorn replied:
<quote>
No.
</quote>

So, am I to conclude that you like the US healthcare system in its current form?  Just checking.

Can you admit that putting the government in charge of it won’t fix it?

Now you’re just being silly. Come on, I challenge you to name one thing the gooberment has ever fucked up.

Geeeeez… the guy you critique sends money to help your dying wife, so that you can carry-on critiquing?! Wow! This is straight from Greek theater.

I’m glad to hear that your wife has recuperated, regardless of your choices.

social security, medicaid, inability to enforce the sovereignty of our nation by preventing illegal border crossings, the “bang-up” job that the war on drugs has done to stop the flow of illegal drugs into our country.

Anyone else feel free to point out other things the government has fucked up

So, am I to conclude that you like the US healthcare system in its current form?  Just checking.

You didn’t ask that. You asked if Jim taking money from Moore proved anything about the US healthcare system. That particular thing doesn’t prove jack shit. That particular thing proves nothing but that Moore’s a backstabbing cunt.

sends money to help your dying wife

Ah, ignorance marches on. You’re in such good company, Variable.

I thought I made a pretty simple point, but clearly this hatred of Michael Moore has deranged some of the “monkeys” who support this site.

Well, I do, in fact, happen to hate Moore. On that, at least, you’re correct.
But I think I’m far from “deranged”. In fact, the predominant reason of my hatred is Moore’s obvious distaste for the truth. My love of it fuels my anger toward him… whereas a ‘deranged’ person lives in a world of self-created, or co-opted, fantasy.
This simply does not describe me. It does, however, describe the vast majority of Moore’s fans.

Oh, and playing off my screen name as a derogatory label?
Yeah, original. Well done. Never heard that one before.

Let’s break it down.

Yes, let’s.

Jim accepted a gift from an anonymous donor.

Right so far.

Jim needed the money.

Well, your streak didn’t last long.
Jim needed the money in the same way we all need money.
He could have payed the bills himself, as he has pointed out time and again, but this just made his life a bit easier.
It was not a necessity as much as it was a convenience.
Which is precisely contrary to how Moore is going to portray it in his film; how he always planned to portray it in this film.
Starting to get it now?
No?
Didn’t think so.

Jim later finds out that the money came from Michael Moore.

Actually, he suspected it long before. Then the press leaks showed up, then Moore himself confirmed it; note, here- much too late to correct his mistake in accepting it, and have it not used as ammunition in Moore’s film.

Jim doesn’t like Michael Moore.

Now, I’m not Jim… and I don’t even know Jim on a personal level. But from what I have gleaned of the man’s personality, I feel saafe in saying this; (Jim, correct me if I’m wrong)
Jim does not dislike Moore, as a person. He does not know him, as a person. What he dislikes is his M.O. of using propaganda, half-truths and outright lies in his films to make a dishonest point ready to be swallowed whole by weak-minded herd-thinkers and hate-filled left-leaning politicos. (generally, the same thing)
His personal views of Moore are irrelevant. This is not a site dedicated to knocking the man himself, but rather his work.

Jim should find a way to return the money, even if it means returning to the debt-ridden state he was in when he received it.

And once again with the statements that Jim was “debt-ridden”.
I would love to know where you get this information.
Jim is not wealthy by any means. And yes, the cash came in very handy.
But to suggest that he was in the poor house prior to Moore’s actions, just because it nicely fits the agenda being pushed by Moore and yourself, is not only intellectually dishonest, but borderline libelous.
Do you happen to know exactly what Jim’s financial situation is, or was? If so, please tell us how you came across that information.

Jim fails to return the money.

Jim did not fail to do anything.
The fail to do something implies a conscious effort or stated plan to do so.
No plan or effort was ever stated, to my knowledge.
Just because it is your assessment that Jim should do this to redeem himself, does not make it the only, or even the sensible, plan to follow.
Besides, would it really make a difference if he did?
Are you ready to claim that, not only would you stand up and say Jim’s the better man, but that Moore would then remove his manipulation of Jim, and his slanted version of this story, from his movie, if he did return it?
No, I don’t think so.
Moore did it knowing that by the time it was confirmed he was the benefactor, it would be too late. The propaganda machine was already working full steam from day one. Jim is in a no-win situation, here. Damned if he keeps it, and still just as damned if he returns it.
So what, precisely, would be his motivation for returning it?
It seems to me that all this would accomplish is to give Moore the publicity and propaganda for free.
Screw that.

Jim is a hypocrite who is helping Michael Moore make a point about health care and his critics.

Except that he’s not helping Moore do so.
Anyone with the ethical capacity to see these events for how they truly are, can see that the actual truth of the story doesn’t help Moore’s point at all.
Jim’s wife, once again, would not have gone without treatment, period.
This is the crux point behind Moore’s revising of this story, and it’s simply a bold-faced lie.

Are you really going to sit there and tell me that you still don’t see this?
That you still don’t see how Moore engineered this entire thing for the benefit of twisting it into dishonestly serving him?

...really?

Anyone else feel free to point out other things the government has fucked up

Our public schools, as is exceptionally obvious from the recent flood of new members we’ve gotten.

Vermin writes:

Come on, I challenge you to name one thing the gooberment has ever fucked up.

Iraq.  Oops.  Wrong topic.

Buzzion asks:

Can you admit that putting the government in charge of it won’t fix it?

Well, no, actually I can’t.  You see, I look at other countries of the world—countries like France, Germany, Britain and Canada—where the government does pick up the tab for health care, and their citizens get better quality health care than US citizens, and for less money to boot!  Don’t believe me?  Check out this data:

Healthcare in America

This is not to say that these other countries’ health care systems don’t have flaws—I’m sure they do.  But our system’s are bigger.  Switching to a universal health care system, even one funded solely by tax dollars, would be an improvement over what we’ve got.  And you know what?  If things keep up the way they’re going now, we’re going to have that kind of a system.  When middle class people can no longer pay for their families’ health care, that’s when things start to change.  Get ready for it.

So Buzzion, I’d again ask you the question that you didn’t answer:  Can’t we admit that the health care system in the US is fundamentally broken?  Maybe you have some purely market-driven solutions you’d like to propose to solve the problem, but at least admit there’s a problem.

By the way, there’s an elephant in the room that everyone seems to avoiding here.

Jim couldn’t afford proper health care for his wife.

The only elephant in the room seems to be the one blocking your monitor screen whenever anyone points out to you that this was never the case.

For the last goddamned time, please pay attention;

Jim’s wife was never in any danger of not receiving medical treatment she needed!!!

Christ, do we have to write that on a 2x4 and whack you in the head with it a few hundred times?

Can you admit putting the government in charge won’t fix it?

Obviously not.  If you could actually read the question properly you’ll notice that the way its stated is admitting problems in the system.  Its just also asking you at the same time to admit that the government being put in charge won’t fix those problems.

Iraq.  Oops.  Wrong topic.

Holy shit.

Even after two other posters explained it to him, and I spelled government using the word “goober” it still went over his head. I don’t know what to say.

How did Jim become the bad guy here? Jim isn’t the one on trial here on Moorewatch. That would be the fat psychopath “documentarian” we’re here to discuss.

Forget about Jim for a moment, because this is about Moore, not him. Michael Moore didn’t just give Jim money out of the kindness of his heart. If he was really kind, he could have just picked some random guy out of the phone book and bought him a health care plan. He could have walked up to the door like the Prize Patrol and given some unsuspecting family a big cardboard Blue Cross Policy and had that for the end of his film. There is a precedent for that sort of kindness. A man used to walk the streets handing out money anonymously, until cancer forced him to make his identiy known, and eventually killed him.

Moore is an opportunist. He TARGETED Jim. He found and exploited a weakness for his own advantage. That’s something that spies do. (Except when we catch spies, we put ‘em in jail, or hang ‘em, or something like that.)

Moore used the same tactics on Jim that the CIA or the KGB would use to get information. I thought Lefties hated the evil CIA because of their underhanded tactics and the evil that results from them. Apparently, when it’s Moore using them, it’s ok. In fact, we should all be GRATEFUL because Moore is shining some kind of Truth Light on yet another Inconvenient Truth that Bush doesn’t want us to know.

Screw Michael Moore and every single person who thinks that Moore is something more than the cowardly, calculating, manipulating pig that he is.

And Jim, I’m glad you and your wife are doing better.

countries like France, Germany, Britain and Canada—where the government does pick up the tab for health care

Yeah, if you survive long enough to receive the health care.

We’ve already debunked this thoroughly on this site. You’re just gibbering ignorance.

Christ, do we have to write that on a 2x4 and whack you in the head with it a few hundred times?

You know, that sounds like fun anyway, I’ll get the board.

You know, I mean the public schools are soo great here in America! I am sure that public hostpitals will be great too! s/off

Oh and Variable, Cuba is not in that list of countries...I would love to see where they rank.

Incidentally, to address the healthcare topic, I do actually agree that our system is fundamentally flawed.
Or, at least, it has become so in the last 30 years.

Where we disagree is both on the means to fix it, and the cause of the problem.

You see it as corporate greed causing a system that needs to be replaced by socialized medicine.

I see it as a system decimated by liberal trial laws and greedy trial lawyers, fueled by a pervasive entitlement zeitgeist, that needs to be fixed by clamping down on trivial malpractice lawsuits, tightening the borders to eliminate the $$billions$$ of free ER care given to crossovers from Mexico, Canada and elsewhere at our expense, and passing some of the R&D;costs from pharma companies along to nations like France, Germany Britain and Canada, who currently receive the fruits of our pharma industries labor, while we in the US shoulder all the R&D;expense. 

Sure, it’s a bit more complicated a solution, but it’s also a much less expensive one, more responsible in the long run, does not place undue burden on a previously-proven health care industry, and addresses some of the key issues that would continue to lay burdens upon even a socialized US system.

Oh boy, the shit is hitting the fan on Fark. I’m trying to explain to some of the total assholes over there the circumstances surrounding this, but they love to make their assumptions and then stick with them. Expect a lot more hate mail. Brace the mail server.

Oh, and they’re accusing me of being you. I hope you find that flattering, Jim. ;)

I’m trying to explain to some of the total assholes over there the circumstances surrounding this, but they love to make their assumptions and then stick with them.

Yeah, that’s basically the sort of crowd Moore relies on. Take a first impression (which he can fairly masterfully create) and present it to people too pig-stubborn and sheep-stupid to ever change their minds once that impression’s in there.

Expect a lot more hate mail. Brace the mail server.

Has anyone else noticed the site loading slower?
I’m sure it’s the increased traffic from all this.

Oh, and, just because nobody else mentioned it…

ermm… Jim?  Nice new banner you got there.
Whoever made it for you is obviously a true artistic genius! heh.

(Hey, if Moore can shamelessly self-promote for his ‘donation’, why can’t I??)

Artmonkey is being deliberately obtuse.

I wrote:

Jim couldn’t afford proper health care for his wife.

Artmonkey responded (with insults removed):

this was never the case

Maybe Artmonkey missed JimK’s following remark:

I was grateful for the easing of my financial burden for 12 months.  I meant it when I said it helped us climb out of a hole.

Now, I don’t know about you, but when I hear someone describe themselves as “climbing at of a hole” in reference to a “financial burden,” I usually conclude that the person in question was experiencing financial difficulty.  Debt or looming debt, in other words.