more importantly I hope you’ve used your power to tell the truth this time.  I’d love to support this movie, as I’m no friend of the HMO.

Three words:

Trip
to
Cuba

From your last post:

If Mikey had called me up and said “Look, man, I know we disagree on everything, but I just wanted to help.  No strings attached, and I hope she gets better.” that would be an amazing gift and a real piece of altruism.

He.  Didn’t.  Do.  That.

I guess he did now after JimK has called him out.  Interesting timing for sure. Who’s playing who here?

Are you in the movie, Jim? I remember there being a thread mentioning something like that some time ago. Is an interview with you going to be edited down with the $12,000 being the final outcome with you looking like an ass?

I apologize, I thought you were delusional, but that really does sound like Moore, must be him.
Since this is “Moorewatch” I think you should be more thoughtful about this than simply jumping to the first conclusion, which is that Moore did this as some sort of publicity stunt.
The precedent for it as a stunt would be back in “The Awful Truth.” He used to do bits where he would write a campaign contribution check to various political candidates from an organization like “Sodomists for Jesus” and then see who would cash it.  Some of the responses were quite funny.
However, as I listen to that phone call, you’re right, he does sound kind of nervous and uncomfortable.  This one got away from him I think.  So let me give you another interpretation for why he did this.
Moore is fond of quoting things from the bible; remember he did some time in seminary in high school and liked the Berrigan brothers a lot.  This sounds to me like the new Testament “Turn the other cheek” rather than the old testament “eye for an eye.” You’ve been slamming Moore for a long time.  He can either respond in kind, or he can do something unexpected, send a check to his enemy and feel like a good guy.  I’m thinking it’s more about inner satisfaction than another stunt, but who knows.
One more film allustion.  Moore loves Frank Capra.  The “guardian angel” term has to be a reference to Clarence the angel in “It’s a Wonderful Life.” There’s also a bit of Dickens’ “Christmas Carol” in this.  You shouldn’t come off as Scrooge.  This is your celebrity moment, make some jokes about it, show some wit, fight fire with fire.  Don’t come off as a snarly ingrate, this is interesting stuff.

Again, even if this is a publicity stunt, by Moore, the good thing I am hoping for the film is, it will point out the idiocy of the american healthcare market.

Jim’s own situation with his family attests to the structural deficiencies of the U.S. healthcare market, no matter what accusation about Moore is true.

More below on a comment to the previous post.

It’s still a wonder.

However, I couldn’t help but notice a couple of comments Moore made in his Time interview . . . the kind of comments he usually doesn’t make . . . that Canada’s system wasn’t without flaws . . . that he wasn’t trumpeting Castro or his regime.  (That last one might be a first for Moore as, until last week, he never met a totalitarian communist dictator he didn’t defend.)

Could it be that, with Sicko, Moore is trying to become less polarizing?  Or more credible?

Let’s see what else he said:

I just want to say to fellow Americans, “C’mon, we’re the United States! If they [Cuba] can do this, we can do it.”

Do what, Michael?  Do a Castro and put on a good show in an effort to make our healthcare system appear to what it isn’t?

I guess I’m just too damn old to be anything other than a skeptic.  We’ll soon find out if Sicko is trademark Michael Moore or not.

To be quite honest, my health care has been absolutely amazing so far.  The corporation that I work for gives its employees full coverage PPO insurance, dental, vision, and pharm for I think $50 a week. I’ve had surgery that cost me $150 if without it would’ve cost me $2000. The insurance from my company also provided me with 75% of my pay while I was out of work for 2 months. My pain pills cost me $15 total.

I’ve had no problems yet and I’m thankful for that. But I’ll have to say that if I were self employed, the same insurance would cost me more than $1000 a month.  When I worked for another employer, I had an HMO.  That was absolutely horrible. I know that most people are on those types of plans and they do suck.

I wish all big businesses would treat their employees as well as my company does but I guess they can’t afford to do so.

Gosh, what a website....i joined cause’ i had to know why this jimk guy is having to “watch michael moores every move” , now THAT’S scary.....it’s kindof like stalking, isn’t it...?  and now, since he’s gotten this check from MM, he’s even more paranoid than he was before...how incredibly sad, and somewhat scary....

p.s i pay $50 per week for my husband and I both to be covered...dental, medical, rx, etc...all of it.  It’s through my work as well, and we are very pleased w/it.  $25 per week per person.

twigie01,

I’m actually glad that this website exists. MM spends much of his time stalking the Bushies and whoever else he disagrees with.  There are literally thousands of sites that do this kind of stuff with all sorts of pundits. All you have to do is google “(insert name here) sucks” and see what you come up with.  That’s how I found this site. I think it’s cool.

Everybody is holding each other accountable. The more bullshit detectors there are in the world, the better.

p.s i pay $50 per week for my husband and I both to be covered...dental, medical, rx, etc...all of it.  It’s through my work as well, and we are very pleased w/it.  $25 per week per person.

That’s it for me as well. My wife and I. $25 a week. Maybe we work for the same company.

Well, I’ll be paranoid and suspicious if no one else will. I almost have to wonder if he didn’t do this because his lawyers advised him that he had to at least attempt to inform you of this in some way before the film premiers, lest it be open to some sort of legal recourse for “ambushing” someone who might not count as a public figure.

Not to say that’s it, but as I’ve noted, Moore long ago lost his right to the benefit of the doubt. I’ll also note, to Zippy:

I guess he did now after JimK has called him out.

Actually, listen to what Moore says. He never says “It wasn’t for the film” or “It was just to help out”. He just owns up to it being him. He does say he hopes Jim and Donna are doing well, but that could just be basic politeness. He didn’t say anything about “It wasn’t for Sicko or ambush purposes”, he doesn’t say it was altruism… just that it was him.

Just pointing out that he didn’t actually say what Jim was postulating he could say. And considering Moore’s reliance on carefully wording his statements to keep himself from being liable, that could mean something. (Or, it could not. I guess we’ll see.)

How many dictators has Moore actually greeted? Absolutely none, I believe is the answer.

Ascii,

I was speaking metaphorically.  Obviously, you don’t know Moore’s history.

Has anyone ever here noticed the “confirmation bias” that exists on this site? IE: “Michael Moore writes biased documentaries with lots of spin”. True, admittedly, but people on this messageboard turn a blind eye to, say, the spin on Fox News - a media source with far more influence and pervasiveness than anything Michael Moore has ever done. Yet I’ve never seen any anti-Fox rhetoric on this site.

Jim K, your anti-Michael Moore position in the wake of this $12,000 check “scandal” continues to show your slant on things. You form an opinion on something, but you ONLY pay attention to evidence that supports your claim, and you ignore everything else.

@Rann: When I give a gift, it’s quite unusual for me to list the reasons I’m not giving it. If you want to be a cynic, suggest he’s trying to steal the moral high ground. But there was no way Moore could have known Jimk would stir up all this publicity by announcing who sent the money, and then acting the way he did. All the stories I’m reading are about JimK’s reaction, not the gift.
Moore must be so relieved that whenevr he does do something to warrant criticism, it’s buried amid all this kind of nonsense.

Stever,

Just to point out, this site is called MOOREWATCH.  Not Foxwatch.

I’m sure you can find one just like it on the net.

Well I have seen one or two reviews of the movie and all accounts are that it is quite good. One reviewer even thinks it will be bigger than Fahrenheit 9/11.

I gotta be honest, I find it astounding that America sees British and French health systems as being ‘Socialist’. I am a Conservative voter but to me, the Health system is a necessity just like the Police and Fire Department.

When my country, Australia, signed a Free Trade Agreement with the USA, the US pharmaceuticals giants tried hard as they could to get our PBS Scheme watered down as part of the deal. They failed, I am happy to say, but I found it disgusting that they would try to attack something as wholly beneficial as the PBS scheme.

Yet I’ve never seen any anti-Fox rhetoric on this site.

This isn’t AntiFoxNews.com . . . in case you didn’t notice, it’s about Michael Moore.

You form an opinion on something, but you ONLY pay attention to evidence that supports your claim, and you ignore everything else.

Aren’t you talking about Michael Moore?

Red_Elephant,

I think you need to read the last thread a bit.

First of all, Moore doesn’t have friends.  He has employees and allies.  Secondly, my wife was ALWAYS RECEIVING CARE. It was never in doubt that she was going to get the medical care she and her doctors felt was necessary, regardless of cost.

Moore didn’t save his wife’s life. He just made his easier.

I liked esoteric’s comment.

A true Christian would return hate with love.  If the 12k helps save a life, why argue about it?  If you *think* you look like a jackass, maybe that’s because you do.  The media outlined your initial reaction and it was wrong.  Perhaps your 2nd attempt aside from conspiracy theories about intent was a better way to handle things.  Who cares what his motivation was; the money was for a purpose and was initally anonymous.

The bible says that when giving to charity, don’t do it in public to be exalted by men.  How this got to the media I don’t know but does it really matter?

Are any of the regulars here on Michael Moore’s mailing list?  We just seem to have had a small flood of people sign up in the last 24 hours just to make a fawning post or two about Moore.  It feels centrally planned to me.

Augustus,

I gotta be honest, I find it astounding that America sees British and French health systems as being ‘Socialist’. I am a Conservative voter but to me, the Health system is a necessity just like the Police and Fire Department.

That’s an even clearer statement than mine above - and I country I forgot to mention in the previous post.  Conservatism is about, supposedly, making clear, sober, and smart decisions about what works.  the last 50 years are proof that “health care is a necessity”, like the fire dept and the police dept.

All conservatives in Australia (like the current PM), the Tories in England, Sarkovy (spelling is wrong, gotta go soon) in France, etc - this is accepted.  I still don’t know why this isn’t accepted in the U.S.  It truly is mind-boggling, as the numbers clearly show that the U.S. spends much more on health care per person, and still are much less healthy, across all metrics.

So it’s a head scratcher.

The fewer voices, the better the discussion? What? Do you work for the Bush administration?

Sure—it feels more comfortable to limit your circle and isolate yourself from comment and criticism—but that doesn’t heighten the conversation. Rather, it just keeps you ignorant.

This situation has been in news reports—so, of course, new people are finding their way here. It’s how I got here. I’m not a fan of Moore’s, or a liberal, or whatnot. I’m independent—I make up my mind by taking in the facts of the issue at hand. I just couldn’t believe a man received a gift of this magnitude and—because of his political bias—could simply express an unfettered word of appreciation. I tell you, it doesn’t say a lot about his character. Or those of his defenders.

Sethery,

I’ve been a member for a few years I just dont post all that often. I joined either just before or just after Fahrenheit 9/11.

I came back today because there was an article about the Cannes debut on an Aussie news website so I thought i’d stop by to see what Moorewatch had to say.

I hope that allays your fears that im an invader from elsewhere ;) Check my name on the forum if you like ;)

You know.....

The weird thing about this

I just couldn’t believe a man received a gift of this magnitude and—because of his political bias—could simply express an unfettered word of appreciation.

is that you didn’t seem to have read this

Thank you, Michael.  I appreciate the help and I always have.  You know that, of course, because I posted right here on the site that I was grateful to the guardian angel long before this became an issue for the press to feed on.  I hope that your Cannes screening goes well, but more importantly I hope you’ve used your power to tell the truth this time.  I’d love to support this movie, as I’m no friend of the HMO.

which is at the head of this thread.

How is this not an unfettered word of appreciation?

I gotta be honest, I find it astounding that America sees British and French health systems as being ‘Socialist’. I am a Conservative voter but to me, the Health system is a necessity just like the Police and Fire Department.

When my country, Australia, signed a Free Trade Agreement with the USA, the US pharmaceuticals giants tried hard as they could to get our PBS Scheme watered down as part of the deal. They failed, I am happy to say, but I found it disgusting that they would try to attack something as wholly beneficial as the PBS scheme.

I can’t say I understand the details of your plan, but there is a reality you’re not aware of.  The reason you get drugs from American Pharmaceutical companies is because they produce a large percentage of the world’s medicines . . . many with no counterparts anywhere in the world.  Several of the giants you mention spend more on research and development than the GDP of some countries.  Your country has done what others have done (including Canada) . . . that is negotiate a better deal for the masses.  Of course, this means that being a U.S. citizen, I end paying more for more for a dose of whatever than you do via your taxes; hence, I’m paying big bucks for R&D;and you’re not.

As long as big pharmaceutical companies can fund their R&D;, anything they make from Australia is gravy.  What happens when we socialize our system?  Who funds our R&D;?  The government? Remember now, some U.S. pharmaceuticals plow back over 50% of profits into R&D;.

In other words, you’re going to end up being at the mercy of the U.S. government for future drug development.  That means you are going to be at the mercy of the U.S. government for drug prices.  That means your taxes are going up.  Either that or there will be limited new drug development in this country.

This is why our government has protected U.S. pharmaceutical companies from Canada and other countries selling top name drugs here.  They buy it from Pfizer (an U.S. company) at a ridiculously low price (relatively speaking) then sell it back to to Americans for a profit although the price might be only a third of what we now pay.  And that is why Michael Moore and many others say our politicians are in bed with big pharmaceuticals when all they are doing is ensuring those companies can keep funding R&D;.

Moore says U.S. pharmaceuticals make obscene profits.  What he fails to note is that those companies have obscene expenses for R&D;.  Eliminate those profits and guess what . . . obscene taxes to fund R&D;.

There’s a lot more to this than what most people realize.  Like minor birds too many of them repeat the term “obscene profits” as if they understood how to read a corporation’s profit and loss statement which most of them wouldn’t bother to study even if they understood it.

The fact is you’re going to pay for it one way or another . . . and the worst part is that includes rich and poor alike.  Trading one lousy system for another because it seems like the thing do is hardly my idea of progress.

And by the way, haven’t you noticed how virtually every socialized healthcare system in the world is constantly trying to fix something . . . a shortage of medicine, or a shortage of doctors, or a shortage of equipment, or a shortage of hospital rooms, or a wait-time for medical care that can be forever . . . or maybe longer.  There ain’t no perfect system, so my advice to Americans is be careful what you trade for . . . and my advice to foreigners is get ready to deal with high drug prices if universal healthcare is accepted here.

I just couldn’t believe a man received a gift of this magnitude and—because of his political bias—could simply express an unfettered word of appreciation. I tell you, it doesn’t say a lot about his character. Or those of his defenders.

Exactly and precisely who was he supposed to thank?  Did he know for sure where it came from.

And he thank whoever when he got the money . . . the guardian angel . . . remember.  Obviously, you didn’t read that post going back over a year now.

Furthermore, have you read JimK’s latest.  Now that he knows it was Moore he thanked him . . . graciously.

This is unbelievable.  I hadn’t heard of this website until I read a news story on Moore’s new film showing in Cannes, but wow.  I completely understand political differences...I go to school with about 900 Conservative Mennonites and I would consider myself liberal.  Heck, I even understand your problem with Moore, because even though I’m liberal, I believe Moore does twist the truth and intellectually lie...provide figures that while true, don’t represent the entire truth.  That said, I believe the message behind most of his movies is sincere, and I’m happy that he isn’t afraid to show his opinions to a totalist regime. 

Beyond that, though, I am simply amazed at your complete lack of gratitude towards a man that helped your wife stay alive at personal cost to HIMSELF.  It’s reported that the money needed for your wife’s medical care would’ve led to you closing down this site because of the money it costs to run this site.  Moore donates a check to the ring leader of his biggest hate organization without his name on it so that his wife will get better and that the organization will stay alive.  And you respond with revulsion and hate?  I know so many people have said it before, but if you found the person who sent you the money to be so disgusting, how can you spend it and not feel that your morals have been compromised?

And there is absolutely no evidence behind your claim that Moore leaked out.  Your argument that “Moore has no friends” is childish and juvenile.  Many people helped Moore make “Sicko,” so many people would’ve known about the segment of the documentary concerning the check that he sent to you.  Most of those people are also considerably less wealthy than Moore, and would have more to gain financially if they were to leak the story to a newspaper.

All this, pieced together, ultimately reveals that the only one who stood to gain from this entire venture was you, and that you deserve to look like a complete “ass” (as you stated it in a previous post) for your reaction when finding out it was from Moore.  It’s not like he got the money from killing people and stealing oil...he got the money from portraying what he believed to be right, and isn’t that the exact same thing that you’re doing on this web site? 

Disgusting.

The bible says that when giving to charity, don’t do it in public to be exalted by men.  How this got to the media I don’t know but does it really matter?

Only reason jimk posted anything about it was someone told him it was about to come out.  That’s why the post was called “beating someone to the punch.” The New York Daily News had another source tell them that it was Moore.  Sounds like someone was playing games to get it out.

I gotta be honest, I find it astounding that America sees British and French health systems as being ‘Socialist’. I am a Conservative voter but to me, the Health system is a necessity just like the Police and Fire Department.

That’s an even clearer statement than mine above - and I country I forgot to mention in the previous post.  Conservatism is about, supposedly, making clear, sober, and smart decisions about what works.  the last 50 years are proof that “health care is a necessity”, like the fire dept and the police dept.

The fire dept and police dept are there for public safety.  Healthcare is an individual issue.  The government is not my nanny.

Beyond that, though, I am simply amazed at your complete lack of gratitude towards a man that helped your wife stay alive at personal cost to HIMSELF.

Learn to read moron.

Thank you, Michael.  I appreciate the help and I always have.  You know that, of course, because I posted right here on the site that I was grateful to the guardian angel long before this became an issue for the press to feed on.

Sounds like a lot of gratitude.  For the other part you also need to learn to read again.  Since Moore did not help keep his wife alive.  All he did was help ease the burden of paying for his wife’s care.  There was never any quesion about his wife leaving.

People’s inability to read is astounding.

Are any of the regulars here on Michael Moore’s mailing list?  We just seem to have had a small flood of people sign up in the last 24 hours just to make a fawning post or two about Moore.  It feels centrally planned to me.

Could be.  I think Rann might agree with you.

This is great.

All the Moore-ons are piling on JimK for accepting an anonymous donation to help him out during a time of crisis. He finds out it’s MM and posts this

Thank you, Michael.  I appreciate the help and I always have.  You know that, of course, because I posted right here on the site that I was grateful to the guardian angel long before this became an issue for the press to feed on.  I hope that your Cannes screening goes well, but more importantly I hope you’ve used your power to tell the truth this time.  I’d love to support this movie, as I’m no friend of the HMO.

and now he’s full of

revulsion and hate

I don’t get it.

People’s inability to read is astounding.

Some of these folks habitually cut remedial reading class . . . others are simply guilty of selective comprehension.

I’m no fan of Moore,

Aaaand there it is, the good old Moore defender money quote, made so common after he became indefensible. Suddenly people aren’t his fans, but they’ll certainly be willing to stand up and defend every criticism against him.

Speaking of which, we’ve seen a HUGE resurgence of Mooreons on the site since this happened. Would Moore pay $12,000 to get his attack dogs (some might call them “fans") defending him again after having abandoned the faith? Sure he would, his narcissism is well-documented.

Maybe it wasn’t even for Sicko. Maybe it was all just to give the loyal followers of Moore something to come raging in and bitch at the heathens about. (There, how’s that for a conspiracy theory?)

Posted by godspublicist on 05/19 at 02:28 PM (Link to this comment)
The fewer voices, the better the discussion? What? Do you work for the Bush administration?

Sure—it feels more comfortable to limit your circle and isolate yourself from comment and criticism—but that doesn’t heighten the conversation. Rather, it just keeps you ignorant.

The fewer morons the better.  And if you just come here repeating moore’s talking points that have been shattered over and over again then you’re not improving the debate you’re rehashing old information.  And if all you’re doing is coming here to call jimk ungrateful or an ass you’re not improving anything only showing your complete lack of reading comprehension.

Agustus,

Hi, I wasn’t thinking of you as one of the recent additions.  I actually checked out the profiles of probably 6 - 8 of the post authors that sounded very similar, and found that they had all registered since yesterday and had only one or two comments.  They don’t seem to be checking out the rest of the site; they only came to comment in the top post.

This isn’t an enormously popular site, so to see that many registrations made me suspect it was coordinated.  I suppose it could be some influence of media coverage (which I haven’t seen yet), but I’ve never been partiularly inclined to join a site to poke people just because I read about them in the media.  And when I did go to Think Progress (to do a little more than poke) I read a lot of their site before commenting.

So I’m suspecting that there was some notice sent out about this site, maybe not explicitly endorsing any activity, but I could be mistaken.  I would actually consider it a good thing if Moore mentioned this site to his fans, as long as he didn’t try to incite some kind disturbance here.  A lot of people try to hide their critics from their fans, and I din’t think that’s very cool.

So I’m suspecting that there was some notice sent out about this site, maybe not explicitly endorsing any activity, but I could be mistaken.  I would actually consider it a good thing if Moore mentioned this site to his fans, as long as he didn’t try to incite some kind disturbance here.  A lot of people try to hide their critics from their fans, and I din’t think that’s very cool.

Of course Moore has done that too.  Back around F9/11’s release he put up a review about himself on his website.  The original view listed this website in it, and his website had that part taken out.

By the way, does it creep anyone else out that a guy calling himself godspublicist seems to be acting like a PR spin agent for Moore?

I mean, I know we joke about Moore-worshipers, but the idea that some of them might take it seriously is a little frightening. I’m a-scared!

Not to mention that after he made that stupid comment about how blacks would’ve stopped the 9-11 hijacking better than whites, he eliminated his forums.

Well I guess the press works in both ways.  I found this site, not because I have anything against Michael Moore, but because of the article linked from CNN’s home page.  I’m a news freak.

Look, everyone has an agenda. And agenda based upon a myriad of factors including fact, opinion and mood.  Just depends how strong the person with the agenda is.  This is what determines whether you are ever exposed to that individual’s particular agenda or not.

The strong rise to the top.

I’m not going to debate the merits of Michael Moore’s work.  Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as well as the right to voice said opinion.  This right is one of the very things which makes our country so great.  Every facet of public life has its own element or degree of “spin”.  Nothing is objective.  After all, life for those in the public eye, is based upon their ability to hold the public’s attention, no?

That being said, regardless why Michael Moore cut the check, it was a noble gesture.  I don’t care what the motivation was, it was a noble gesture.  For all you know, he was sitting around Cannes, toking a big fatty and downing a shot of tequilla with his buds and came out with “You know that little S**T who was bashing me, that I was going to sue?  I’ll fix him.  I’ll give him a little dew off the lilly… say 12k to help him out and then leak it.  Now I’m the good guy, I’m standing behind my film’s message and we’ll get some publicity!  HAR HAR HAR HAR HAR!”.

or

Michael Moore is eating a meal with his friends at a “Margarittaville” and someone tells him about the webmaster’s issue.  Being the nice guy that he is, he immediately wants to do something to help.  He arranges for a check for 12k to go out and when he sees his motivation is misunderstood, then he takes the time to call and extend an olive branch.

or

The truth lies somewhere in between the two extremes.  Regardless, the outcome is what it is.  A noble gesture. 

Whether you agree or disagree or are somewhere in the middle with respect to Michael Moore’s message(s) and movies and public position, he did not have to do what he did.  It could have been more.  It could have been less.  The fact is that it actually “is”.  In today’s world, if that doesn’t count, then society as a whole in this great country, has actually taken a step back to “ape-hood”. 

Me?  I’ll keep walking upright thanks.

Peace --> m.

Due to press, I’ve just discovered this website, so may speak with some ignorance on its’ past.
First, some responsibility for healthcare should be up to individual states. I own a business in Hawaii. State law here requires us to purchase and pay for healthcare for all our employees. This costs me $100,000 annually, but it helps keep my employees healthy and productive. Please keep in mind the federal government can’t be responsible for every aspect of our lives. Hammer your local elected officials for similar laws in your states.
Second, if I had such disdain for an indivual as the developer of this site obviously does for Michaeal Moore and I found out this person sent such a large sum of money to help me, my own ethics would require me to do whatever I could to return that money, even if I had to make payments to him. If I didn’t do this, I would feel like the world’s biggest hypocrite and just shut down the site. Obviously, the money came from the film’s Michael Moore has made and this site has dedicated itself to bashing.
Jim, show us just how ethical you really are. Pay back the money to Michael Moore.
My comments are not an endorsment of Michael Moore. I am just questioning the convictions of the owner of this website.

And just to be clear, I’m not at all upset that new people come here with a different point of view.  I just noticed that a lot of the new people came here to mock JimK for receiving money from Moore, and it didn’t seem to matter what the circumstances were, or what JimK said about it in the past or even now after he found out it was true.  That’s such a small component of what the debate is really about.  That’s merely attacking the man, not the message.

I hope the new people (and probably many of the regulars) realize that there really are at least two sides to this debate.  I’m not in favor of socialized healthcare for several reasons, but I’m willing to listen to a rational explanation of how it might be better.  But that explanation needs to address things like:

1.  Is free healthcare really a “human right”?

2.  Much of a person’s personal health is attributable to their habits and lifestyle choices like smoking, nutrition, wearing seatbelts, etc.  Where does the idea originate that peoples’ choices that affect their health shouldn’t affect their health costs?

3.  Will there be as powerful an incentive for new drug R&D;without a profit motive, as Buzz mentioned earlier?

Anybody who wants to convince us to support radically changing our system needs to be able to answer questions like those and many others.  Simply pointing out that other countries have it is merely appealing to mob mentality.  To assume we’re dipshits because we don’t just jump on the bandwagon is elitist and intellectually bankrupt.

That being said, regardless why Michael Moore cut the check, it was a noble gesture.  I don’t care what the motivation was, it was a noble gesture.

Uh, no. The results may have been good, but if you do something good just to further your own goals and ambitions, that is not noble. If you shoot someone just because you want to watch them die, it doesn’t matter if that person was a serial killer, that doesn’t make you killing them “noble” since you just did it for your own gratification. Similarly, if you give someone money to help them not because you WANT to help them, but because you have ulterior motives, that does not make you charitable or noble.

I find your self-congratulatory comments about not allowing society to descend into “ape-hood” to be a little hollow in the face of not understanding such a simple concept.

Well, it sure is nice to see that you continue to bash Michael Moore even after he gave $12,000 to you.  Obviously you continue to do so on the web site that you supposedly needed to close due to your wife’s illness.  Maybe we all should approach this situation like a high school office would and ask for a doctor’s note as evidence that she was really sick.  Are you sure that $12K wasn’t for some sort of plastic surgery?

By the way, the way in which you previously attempted to prove that Fred Thompson was not smoking a Cuban cigar in his video is because they are “inferior” is absurd.  First of all, how did you become such a cigar expert?  Second, the article stating the presence of Cuban cigars in Thompson’s office was published in The Weekly Standard (which is owned by News Corp) so their origination has to be correct.  Why?  Because that conservative rag is just like every person on the right: pompous and arrogant to the point that they do not think any law applies to them but so ridiculously righteous that they are the first to point the finger at individuals who disagree with them.

Personally, I think saying it was a noble gesture is a subjective observation.

I think paying Michael Moore back is a good idea as long as long as it paid for by universal healthcare . . . so divvy up.

We’re seeing some really classic Mooreon today. I mean, it’s kind of like a flashback to the old days of Bowling for Columbine around here…

tourguy,

The donation was made about a year ago ANONYMOUSLY during a time when the webmaster was looking for help and advice.

He just found out that it may or may not have been MM a couple of days. Now it’s been confirmed and he graciously thanks him for it.

I’ll have to agree with you though. If I found out that money was handed to me from lets say crack dealer, I would do whatever I could to return it to him. If Mikey refuses payment then I would give it to a charity of his choice (as long as it’s not Hamas).

On the other hand, I would think it very hard for an anonymous donation to be returned after the fact a year later when money isn’t that available to me.

Lesson learned for me; don’t take candy from a stranger...especially an anonymous one.

By the way, the way in which you previously attempted to prove that Fred Thompson was not smoking a Cuban cigar in his video is because they are “inferior” is absurd.  First of all, how did you become such a cigar expert?  Second, the article stating the presence of Cuban cigars in Thompson’s office was published in The Weekly Standard (which is owned by News Corp) so their origination has to be correct.  Why?  Because that conservative rag is just like every person on the right: pompous and arrogant to the point that they do not think any law applies to them but so ridiculously righteous that they are the first to point the finger at individuals who disagree with them.

Congratulations . . . No one here is ever going to accuse you of impeccable reasoning.

Buzz,

Congratulations to you as well because no one is ever going to accuse you of understanding English.

Thompson smokes Cuban cigars and is documented doing so.  No one on the right, especially Thompson, should bash Moore about his trips for Sicko when Thompson is clearly violating the trade embargo with Cuba.

Thompson smokes Cuban cigars and is documented doing so.  No one on the right, especially Thompson, should bash Moore about his trips for Sicko when Thompson is clearly violating the trade embargo with Cuba.

Clearly violating the trade embargo . . . Clearly?  Take that reporter’s article to court and see how far you get.  That’s evidence only in a kangaroo court . . . the one you’re holding right now.

I know what you think . . . tell me what you know.