Smiles For Socialism
For people who oppose socialized medicine, Britain’s NHS is the gift that keeps on giving. And for genuine Brits, it’s a nightmare:
Like so many young women, Amy King always took great pride in her appearance.
Standing in front of the mirror to check her make-up before a night out, the 21-year-old would always try a smile - friends told her they loved the way it lit up her face.
Eight weeks ago, all that changed. The student from Plymouth was admitted to hospital where, in a single operation, she had every tooth in her mouth removed.
Amy, whose dental problems were caused by untreated gum disease, does not go out any more. And when she looks in the mirror she hardly recognises the face staring back at her.
...
While Amy’s experience is an extreme one, it highlights growing concerns about the state of the nation’s dental health.
Last week, statistics obtained by the Liberal Democrats revealed that the number of people having teeth extracted in hospital has risen by one third in the past four years.
More than 175,000 Britons had their teeth removed under general anaesthetic in 2007/08, up 40,000 on the 2003/04 figure.
The number of children having teeth out has shot up, too. But more pertinent is the fact that the rate of these extractions gathered pace after a deeply controversial contract for NHS dentists was introduced in April 2006.
Read the whole thing. The system in Britain is basically denying people routine care but paying for massive expensive procedures. So Amy couldn’t get any help until they needed to yank out every last tooth.
Yes, the Law of Unintended Consequences rears its ugly head again.
Comments
I think your missing the point Tripper. Access to ‘free’ wait lists are not access to care.
He’s also missing this:
But more pertinent is the fact that the rate of these extractions gathered pace after a deeply controversial contract for NHS dentists was introduced in April 2006.
2006 is three years ago, the key point being three is less than five. It seems things have changed for the worse since you were living in Britain five years ago.
Well it’s true I can’t comment to the last 3 years ago, but as for wait lists, my annecdotal evidence is that I never waited more than 3 weeks and that was to get a specific time slot. If you were flexible when you could attend then you could be seen quickly. In contrast, I had to have a filling done here this week and if I’d have missed my appointment I’d be looking a month out minimum.
The issue you miss here is that NHS dental care IS free but simply hard to get currently in the UK. This is due to many reasons but the primary one has been the continued drive to privatise many areas of dental care. The issue Amy faces is that she will not be able to gain access to an NHS dentist and so has the situation faced, I assume, by a whole load of Americans. namely that the treatment they want is costly and they have to take the cheaper options: tooth extraction.
With a true NHS dentist the treatment is free regardless. I have personally had gold teeth fitted, my son’s brace work and orthodontist work has all been undertaken on the NHS and we have never paid a penny.
Why do we have limited access? Because the recent funding agreement with the NHS favoured the doctors over the dentists and so created a charging system that deters dentists from taking on NHS patients. This is now due to change.
The NHS has been around for my entire life and works. I have been fortunate not to need much but when I have I have not had to worry for money or insurance. I can get well without becoming sick with worry abouot how I can afford to become well.
I will also add that the ‘wait lists’ are very short. I might have to wait a whole 24 hours to see my dentist or less than 12 hours to see my doctor.
Wow, what a long wait!
Here on Moorewatch we get the horror stories and the happiness stories when it comes to socialized medicine. It’s great that the NHS has worked for you. I’m not going to wish crappy health on people so that I’ll be “right” about something. The problem I have with socialized medicine coming to the U.S. is that we have 300 million people, a bankrupt government that already has 54 trillion dollars worth of unfunded liabilities (much of that coming from socialized medicine) and millions of illegal immigrants. I think it would be irresponsible to introduce another vast and costly social program when we already have enormous problems that need to be addressed.
Just have a look at the V.A. and then tell me you’d want the U.S. government handling your health care.
Posted by GaryN on 04/28/2009 at 09:56 AM
“I assume, by a whole load of Americans. namely that the treatment they want is costly and they have to take the cheaper options: tooth extraction.”
Probably assuming wrong.
“I can get well without becoming sick with worry abouot how I can afford to become well.”
Just don’t get anything really expensive to fix.
Sir Michael Rawlins, head of Britain’s National Institute of Clinical Effectiveness (NICE), for his nation’s low cancer survival rates. The British National Health Service, he is quoted as saying in the NEJM last November, has to be fair to all patients, “not just the patients with macular degeneration or breast cancer or renal cancer. If we spend a lot of money on a few patients, we have less money to spend on everyone else.”
Braces are cheaper than helping… you know.. the chronically ill. And research… or saving people with new methods (they tend to just need more care after you save them)…
Posted by GaryN on 04/28/2009 at 09:57 AM I will also add that the ‘wait lists’ are very short. I might have to wait a whole 24 hours to see my dentist or less than 12 hours to see my doctor. Wow, what a long wait!”
The NHS wait times are on line… we can all see them. I’m glad you can see a denists. We can all see how long it takes to see specialists in UK…
Uk Waiting lists are here.
Where is the corresponding data for the US?
Dental Specialist - 2 weeks
Heart Specialist - 1 day
Knee specialist - 6 weeks
Dermatologist - 4 days
Personal experience but I would assume that my heart is important.
My friend had a number of issues and was tested for breast cancer the same day as her first appointment with the doctor. Unfortunately it was positive and so full chemotherapy, all medication, all home care, surgery, etc. Prompt, professional care.
We have issues, I know this. I believe both systems have issues. Yet ours covers everyone all of the time. When you need it most, the NHS is there (I have no doubt there are cases that will counter this but I would stand by the norm). I have no personal experience of the US system but would state that, if I were seriously ill, I would choose the UK every time. I believe most within the UK would state the same.
I wonder if most Americans support your system above a ‘socailist’ National Health Service?
I will also point out this poll, done by The New York Times and CBS in 2007.
Three telling facts from this are that people are not impressed with the insurance system you have in place, that they do not trust the Government to do a better job and so, the third conclusion, they have no idea how to fix the issue.
As it is, I have agreed in the forums to only discuss this issue when the NHS is raised as evidence that a nationalised system cannot work (therefore hopefully introducing a user’s veiwpoint and some ‘balance’). I did not start that way but agree that I should continue that way. Therefore, I resign from the discussion. :o)
We don’t need to point to the NHS for examples of why socialized medicine doesn’t work. The VA and Medicare provide lots of great examples. How about the poor vets who were infected with HIV from a colonoscopy machine?
As I said before, if the NHS is a paradise of health care goodness for England, hats off to it. But a big, bloated government that’s 54 trillion dollars in the hole isn’t likely to be Johnny-on-the-spot when it comes to curing cancer. I’ll take my chances with eeeevil for-profit corporations, since they don’t seem to be in the habit of spreading around AIDS.
Posted by GaryN on 05/03/2009 at 12:34 PM (Link to this comment | )
“American Waiting Lists Grow
Uk Waiting lists are here.”
The whole point of US healthcare is there is some competition. I can pick my hospital. So, if one place has a wait… go somewhere else (example: I have three unaffiliated / separate hospitals in my area that do transplants). Anyway, your going to need to define ‘many’ as in many people will need to make hard choices. Are you saying 1 in 5? Or 1 in 500 is ‘many’?
As to the UK wait lists; the are by region (they each have their own budgets and wait lists). They’re also on line in real time; not just excel sheets. You also can’t generalize with things like ‘heart specialist’. Example, when it comes down to it, there are many kinds and if you have to be able to catch all of them when you need help (general cardiologist, cardiac surgeon, arrhythmia specialist / pacemaker guy, et cetera)… You might need one of each and to be able to get an appoint with anyone them quickly… If you can’t get an appointment with the one you need, when you need it, your life can be at risk. In the end, one difference is that state control doesn’t even allow you to make a hard choice. They make it for you and you deal with it.
Posted by GaryN on 05/03/2009 at 02:28 PM (Link to this comment | )
“I will also point out this poll, done by The New York Times and CBS in 2007.”
Policy based on poll is an appeal to popularity. Not sound social science.
What are they going to compare their care to? They don’t have experience dealing with the NHS.
Anyway, I don’t like my insurance either. But they’ve paid over a 100k in my insurance bills in the last couple months… I never waited for anything. My out of pocked / co pay has been less than 1% of my total bills… Still, I’d change things about insurance… I’d make it more free market… I have definite ideas on what I would change.
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When I lived there 5 years ago, NHS dental care was free for children under 16 and for those in full time education. If she’s a student as the article suggests she is entitled to NHS dental treatment for ‘free’