Suddenly Susan
In the Two Emails post below I posted an email from a Canadian named Susan Jendrick. Just to give you an idea of how utterly clueless Moore fans can be, I am posting our entire email exchange here.
From:
Subj: Once again, the stupidity of United States is shinning throughThank you MR. MOORE, you have again opened the eyes of many and shut the ones that are already blind. Blinded by stupidity. Michael Moore is one of the best things that is happening in the states. Its pretty sad when people from the states have to sneak across the border, lie and say that they are Canadians just to get treatment they think they deserve. Well if you are so deserving of this treatment, look to your own government for help. You think that your land is the best, everything in the states are better than everyone else, WOW do you people need an awakening! How much more stupid can you people get, you support a government that cares more about war then its own people. They even treat the terrorist with better health care than they give their own people. Hello? should that not tell you something. Its really a shame that you people can only see whats in front of you. Take off the blinders, the rose colored glasses. Hey, there is a world out there, other countries that do look after their own. Theres alot about this SiCKO film that alot of you americans can learn alot from. Take notes, that is if you can read or write!
My reply.
Once again the stupidity of some Canadian moron has made the front page of our website.
http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/two_emails/
Honestly, you retarded Canucks make it too easy sometimes.
To which she responded (and this is exactly as I received it, formatting and spelling identical):
So very american. Can’t think of anything smart enough to come back with except name calling. How mature! Very proud Canadian, you . . . only wish! and as I said to you friend,
“ Thank God you are not me. Do americans really believe the world looks up to them?
americans do keep us laughing though . . . their lack of knowledge of
anything beyond their own borders is
amazing. When we go to other countries, we do not have to lie about who we
are or where we are from. Someone
is a little jealous by the sounds of things, and I don’t blame you. Tell
me, do you get tired of standing up for a country
that does nothing but let the people in it down?”Wow you two really are amazing.
My reply:
Listen to me, you fucking ignoramus. I’ve personally LIVED in the following countries, not visited but LIVED.
Australia (the country where I was born)
Italy
Turkey
Iran
Morocco
Burma
Indonesia
Malaysia
Singapore
Norway
Scotland
the United States
And I currently reside in Beijing, China.In addition to my residence in these countries, I have also traveled the world extensively, at one time or another visiting all of Europe and every continent except Antarctica. Other than Russia, Egypt, India, and North Korea, I’ve been to every place in the world I could ever hope to go. So you can take you smug sense of Canadian self-satisfaction and shove it up your socialist ass.
As far as name calling goes, go back to your original post and point out ONE SINGLE LOGICAL ARGUMENT you made. Do it, I dare you Find one. You did nothing but write to me for no reason other than to insult me, Jim, the site, and to praise both your disgustingly poor healthcare system and your idol, Michael Moore.
When you can make an argument with more intellectual veracity than that of your average fifth grader, feel free to write me back. Otherwise, fuck off and die.
Oh, and when you end up on a waiting list for a year and half for hip surgery, don’t you DARE come to America to get it done. I want you to lay there in agony for 18 months, convincing yourself that this is the best way to provide healthcare to people. Because other than your failing healthcare system and an army that is going bankrupt participating in UN peacekeeping missions (where little girls are routinely raped by the blue helmets), you Canadians have exactly jack shit to distinguish yourselves from America. And it pisses you off.
As for lying about who I am or where I am from, I proudly claim both my Australian and American citizenship.
So, if you feel like talking out of your ass and continuing to make yourself look like a complete ignoramus, feel free to respond. And try and meet my challenge, if you can—quote your original email to me and point out a single logical argument you made. Find ONE. I dare you.
Moron with an inferiority complex, the concise definition of al too many Canadians.
So, does Susan meet my challenge? See if you can guess.
Was all that drivel suppose to impress me? I do not have to defend what I said. I know what I said, you are the one on the defence. It is amazing how one comment can rouse up ones temper. I will no longer waste my time with you, Jim or your hot air web site. By yours and Jims comments, I have made my point, and it obviously got to both of you. For your comments say it all!
Here’s my reply.
Of course you refuse to defend what you said. Like the typical sheep who flock to Moore’s movies you can’t make an intellectual argument in favor of what you believe, you just believe it and anyone who disagrees is a heretic. It is exactly the same dynamic we see in fundamentalist Christians. You have been brought up your entire life to believe that your “system” is better than their “system,” thus no further rationality or thought is required. it is self-evident.
What I am telling you, Susan, is that it is not self-evident. You just blindly and naively believe what you have always believed to be true. You don’t think for yourself, you’re not intellectual in any respect, you haven’t provided a single fact or logical retort.
You are a complete and total waste of time.
If you think that your “point” got to me, would you do me a favor, and tell me exactly what your “point” was? I asked you to do this in my last email and you neglected to do so. It is my contention that you have absolutely no point whatsoever. So, please, kindly tell me what your point was, or just admit the fact that you’re a clueless dunce who simply doesn’t like Americans.
Enjoy your waiting lists.
So, here’s my question for the group. Can anyone out there, Canadian or American, Moore supporter or opponent, tell me what Susan’s point was? I sure as hell can’t figure out what it is, and she’s obviously to fucking retarded and/or intellectually dishonest to tell me herself. So perhaps we can use our collective powers to figure it out for her.
Anyone? Anyone?
Update: For the sake of completeness, here is the email I just sent Susan.
Congratulations, Susan. You have joined an exclusive group, a Moore fan so utterly stupid and incapable of rational thought that you get your own post on the front page.
http://www.moorewatch.com/index.php/weblog/comments/suddenly_susan/
Since you can’t figure out what your point was, we’re going to see if we can figure it out for you. You just sit there, wave your maple leaf flag, and entertain yourself watching moths flying into the bug zapper, while the rest of us do your thinking for you.
Honestly, Moore fans fucking astound me sometimes.
Comments
I think she wants to have sex with you.
Kinky black leather sex.
You wear the blinders.
She wears something pointy.
You better be careful.
She’s already got the pointy thing made.
That’s quite a challenge. I am not sure, but I think her points are:
1) MM is a hero for revealing the flaws in the US health care system, of which Americans were previously unaware.
2) People who sneak across the border to Canada to get health care are sad and stupid (I have to agree with that one, if it has ever happened).
3) our government ought to provide free health care to us.
4)Americans are stupid and are not aware that other countries have state controlled health care.
I think her point is:
“HE HAS RISEN! Mikus Christ made a film for your sins! Let the word be spread throughout your stupid land!”
...though I like fangbeer’s response more.
It saddens me that the word “liberal” has been twisted from its original meaning into the designation for the current party of socialists we have now. It also saddens me that “fundamentalist Christian” has been warped from simply meaning “a Christian who follows the fundamentals” into “rabid hateful zealot.” Especially considering I know some Liberals (classical sense) who are not liberal (modern sense) and I know fundamentalist Christians who can whip anyone in an intellectual debate. Ah well, as Susan shows us, debate is nearly dead, and the majority of people rely on ad hominem attacks, emotions, and straw men and they call it “winning the argument.” Sad.
I see no point to that first email. I also have to say, it is people like that who give us true Moore fans a bad name. Yes, I am a Moore fan. However, I know one thing that most Moore fans here seem to be totally ignorant of. That Michael Moore is indeed human. Capable of lying, and his personal favorite tactic, touting his opinion as fact. While Moore brings up many good points in his movies, you have to look at the other side as well. Every debate has two sides, and if you only listen to one of them you can’t make an informed decision. And in the end you wind up with morons like this spouting bullshit out of their ears.
its pretty sad when people from the states have to sneak across the border, lie and say that they are Canadians just to get treatment they think they deserve.
Is she referring to illegals from Mexico?
While Moore brings up many good points in his movies
How good can points be that are based on deceptions, deceits, distortions and lies? How can valid debate spring up from cutting and pasting different Charlton Heston speeches together to manufacture context and content, for example?
How good can points be that are based on deceptions, deceits, distortions and lies? How can valid debate spring up from cutting and pasting different Charlton Heston speeches together to manufacture context and content, for example?
Like I said, you must look at both sides of the story. Moore, being human, is capable of deception, and misrepresentation. However, the issues raised are quite valid. Am I asking you to hang on every word that spews from his mouth? No. Just listen, and make your own decisions. Because if you don’t hear both sides of the story you aren’t eligible to make a decision.
Susan’s points:
1. Amongst all of the technological and cultural contributions the US makes to the rest of the world, including drugs and medical technologies which we then sell at ridiculously low costs to socialist governments, Michael Moore is the very bestest thing we have going for us right now.
2. People with medical problems “think they deserve” treatment. Those selfish bastards.
3. Americans regularly sneak into Canada and fool health officials to get free medical treatment, somehow bypassing the lines all the Canadians have to wait in.
4. Susan is one of many individuals who honestly believe that other countries are a single homogeneous mass who agree with everything their own government does. She’s able to understand that the political climate in her own country is not total harmony and that many people probably have problems with current policies and politicians, but she’s unable to extend this logic to apply to other countries. All Americans support the government, Bush, and the invasion of Iraq.
5. The idea that people might actually choose to live in a country because they think it is the best country to live in apparently is an offensive one.
6. Somewhere, “the” terrorist is getting better medical care than the rest of us.
7. Unlike us moronic Americans, who only see what’s in front of us, Susan considers the individual situations of other countries and evaluates her own government critically, thinking intellectually about her current situation instead of blindly accepting what is presented to her. ..Oh, wait....
8. Alot is a totally legit word, and using it three times in the same sentence earns you a triple word score.
9. She doubts whether Jim and Lee can read or write, despite that she discovered them through a blog in which they both write regularly and reply to reader and e-mail comments.
Fangbeer, not to go all raving feminist on you, but chicks do actually read the comments here (and occasionally delurk - cough), and dismissing a woman’s (completely asinine) opinion by just reducing her to a sexual object isn’t exactly a fantastic intellectual argument. The woman’s a moron, no doubt about it, but it’d be great to see her told off just for that and not get additional flack for being female as well. It kind of discourages the rest of us from opening our mouths.
Lee, dual citizenship FTW! Funny how people who actually have experience with both kinds of systems tend to be extremely critical of both, and not be blinded by the glamorous smokescreen of a socialist wonderland.
No you can not have sex with me.
Lee;
I just wondered; Where in Norway did you live, and for how long?
I think most of the e-mail is just filler. She padded the e-mail with insults so that after she sent it, she would feel good because she struck a blow for entitlements and socialist policies all over the world.
If she had only included her point, the e-mail would have been very short:
Michael Moore is Great! Watch SICKO!
Hardly the kind of prose that makes one feel smug and superior, which necessitated all of the junk in the middle.
Posted by MacLir on 12/15/2007 at 06:11 PM (Link to this comment | )
“Like I said, you must look at both sides of the story. Moore, being human, is capable of deception, and misrepresentation. However, the issues raised are quite valid. Am I asking you to hang on every word that spews from his mouth? No. Just listen, and make your own decisions. Because if you don’t hear both sides of the story you aren’t eligible to make a decision.”
Like with most things Moore touches, he has made it harder to have a rational discussion.
His fans assume you’re a bad person who doesn’t care, under the influence of republican propaganda, and/or bought and paid for by the industry… for not being with them.
So no, I can’t agree with you. Moore has not helped. He has poisoned the debate with his propaganda. We are not talking rational policy, we’re down in the muck trying to point out that there are good reasons (other than greed, evil, et cetera) for not supporting ‘free’ healthcare ‘for all’…. The most rational response to his fans is to just blow them off and refuse to talk to them since they’re ‘so far out there’ that you can’t really talk with them in a rational way…
I personally watched sicko. Not because I wanted to, but because I needed extra credit for my english class. my professor wanted me to explain how Mr. Moore failed in his agenda of convincing the average American.
Me being an independent who does not trust the government could point out the loads of bullshit pouring out of his mouth. It is sad that there are so many people who are not inteligent enough to actually go and study the information for themselves. Even if you have to do it in the most simplistic of ways do your research. There are plenty of people from countries who have a socialized health care system I have met through out my years of traveling.
I like Lee have been all around the world. I have lived in Germany where they have such a system. I have also dealt with a government ran health care system. I served in the United States Army for three years before being hurt in Iraq and electing for my freedom.
The US can’t even properly give their soldiers nor their vets proper health care. What makes me think that the US would be able to give proper care to civilians. I am proud to be an American that is why I joined to serve the country that has given me so much. I am not saying that I agree with the current system in place but going to a full blown Government Ran system is simply asinine.
And to Kai: Since fangbeer is turning you down drop me a line *winks and such*
8. Alot is a totally legit word, and using it three times in the same sentence earns you a triple word score.
Awholelota people use “alot” a lot.
However, the issues raised are quite valid.
MacLir,
How does distorting a clear case of medical malpractice in a government run emergency room into a case of routine denial of treatment by HMOs illustrate a valid issue?
How does distorting a clear case of denial of experimental treatment which is a common practice among ALL socialized health care systems into a case of routine denial of treatment by HMOs illustrate a valid issue?
How does distorting the harsh realities of a government run health care system in Cuba, the U.K., France, and Canada into a near perfect socialist health care fantasy illustrate the problems with U.S. health care?
The fact is, in “Sicko”, Moore hardly touched the “valid issues” of American health care because he was too damn busy fabricating myths about the virtues of socialism. Health care was hardly the theme of “Sicko”.
I agree with you slore, the amount of shit incorporated into his movies makes it hard to see the debate. That is why you have to actually look for it.
Such as in Sicko, this is for you too Buzz. The underlying issue in Sicko, is that our current health system is not working for us, but for the companies. Yes, Moore wrongly fabricates the idea that socialized healthcare is a utopia.
However, he doesn’t use lies to do this. It is a common practice to use facts in order to make things seem something they are not. (look at the dihydrogen monoxide hoax)
The problem here is that Moore’s movie is not a documentary, it is one side of a debate, showing only the pros of universal health care. For the record, I don’t agree with Moore on this, socialized health care would not work.
our current health system is not working for us, but for the companies.
The companies?
What companies?
The companies people work for in order to earn a wage?
The companies that offer health care packages as a benefit of employment in lieu of augmented salary?
Those companies?
I’ve personally LIVED in the following countries, not visited but LIVED.
Australia (the country where I was born)
Italy
Turkey
Iran
Morocco
Burma
Indonesia
Malaysia
Singapore
Norway
Scotland
the United States
And I currently reside in Beijing, China.
Was all that drivel suppose to impress me?
“I’m a non-American, you idiots!! I know how to think!!!”
The companies?
What companies?
The companies people work for in order to earn a wage?
The companies that offer health care packages as a benefit of employment in lieu of augmented salary?
Those companies?
No, the evil conglomerates run and operated entirely by Decepticons, of course. Because humans would never dream of expecting compensation for their contributions to mankind. That’s why all the scientists in socialist countries are always making such revolutionary medical breakthroughs.
No you can not have sex with me.
Damn! And here I thought telling a guy to be a decent human being was a sure-fire way into his pants (which is of course my only goal in life). Epic fail. :(
And here I thought jumping to conclusions about whether or not someone is a misogynist pig based on a 6 line comment on a web page was a sure-fire way into his pants
Epic fail indeed.
I’m not here to argue about whether or not the differences between the sexes are to be completely ignored. (Though I do wonder if you would have had any trouble at all if you presumed that Susan was a man) Regardless, if you want to discuss that I’ll argue with you all day long over here.
As for this post, there’s really no use in arguing at all about the motives of this lunatic in the north. It was posted for the sake of humor, and that IS the point.
MacLir:
I read a very interesting post at the house of Eratosthenes that speaks to the issue we have with Moore’s style. It’s the A proves B and B proves A argument. Moore starts with an unfounded premise and attempts to prove the premise with a pack of lies. Moore relies on the fact that the more lies you tell about a premise, the more believable the premise becomes. Once the premise is proven with the lies, then the lies become truth.
MacLir,
I have to disagree with you about moore raising valid issues. His issues are invalid merely because they are chock full of deception. You can’t have a debate that is premised on deception, lies and misconstrued context--it’s simply impossible.
And there’s also the fact that he doesn’t really raise any new issues, anyway. You watch, the next “issue” he’ll raise will be with the lending agency or the impending downfall of social security--even though his dad gets his monthly checks on time every time.
I don’t know, crichton...I think it depends on whether or not a Democrat wins the White House. If we have another Republican president, there’s a decent chance he’ll follow the F9/11 formula again.
But since there seems to be no difference between the parties, he won’t be raising any issues at all, even old ones. “Maxed Out” already covered the problems with debt.
Maybe he’ll do an expose on the evils of the nasty world of for-profit fitness centers. Actually, that’s a great idea.
Mikey, I know you’re reading this blog, so when you see this idea, please feel free to use it. The only thing I ask is that when you present a film that contains footage of you working out, you classify it as “horror” rather than “documentary.”
Posted by MacLir on 12/16/2007 at 07:09 AM (Link to this comment | )
“The underlying issue in Sicko, is that our current health system is not working for us, but for the companies. Yes, Moore wrongly fabricates the idea that socialized healthcare is a utopia.”
Ok, then the next questions… this website aside (since he obviously does effect things here), does Moore’s work really put issues on the public radar or does he just glomb onto issues that are already out there and profit from them?
Ok, then the next questions… this website aside (since he obviously does effect things here), does Moore’s work really put issues on the public radar or does he just glomb onto issues that are already out there and profit from them?
He maybe does. However, there are many people out there that have no idea about these things until Moore speaks out about it. (Let’s just forget that 70% of those people are inept at figuring anything out for themselves)
To tell the truth, I thought most Moore fans were like myself. I am highly disappointed to find all the morons on here. I am equally disappointed however, with all the hatred and personal attacks I see on Moore. I don’t know where people get those ideas. (I haven’t seen Jim, Lee, or MikeS make any personal attacks on him) You can criticize a person’s opinion, and his method of delivering it, and I would agree with you.(in some cases) But I think personal attacks are going too far. A little off topic, sorry.
Posted by MacLir on 12/17/2007 at 08:49 AM
“He maybe does. However, there are many people out there that have no idea about these things until Moore speaks out about it. (Let’s just forget that 70% of those people are inept at figuring anything out for themselves)”
I think he does just profit from issues that are already hot topics. Health care and Bush Hatred were issues before Moore… and then we have to go back to my first point. Rather than inform he radicalizes and harms open discussion....
“But I think personal attacks are going too far. A little off topic, sorry.”
Me too. I think Moore’s brand, or vein, of socialism is no better than fascism (and he often endorses violent groups… such as the Iraqi insurgency.. and voices support for limited free speech...)… I get carried away. Sorry.
Once again, I don’t disagree with you slore. But who else is putting these ideas out there on such a large scale? I don’t think a real documentary would make theaters. I never said I agree with his tactics, quite honestly I don’t. I do agree that healthcare needs improvement, and the movie only stimulated me to look for myself how it can be improved. Although I realize that many people take Moore’s words for gospel, and never look at the other side.
Now that I think about it, maybe this problem of mass gullibility is what really needs to be addressed. How can people think for themselves and stand up to their government, if they can’t even think beyond what a movie tells them to?
P.S. I have seen references to Bowling for Columbine. For those who are for gun control, maybe this will open your eyes. And those who oppose it (I am assuming the majority here) will find this entertaining. (be sure to watch all three)
Posted by MacLir on 12/17/2007 at 01:31 PM (Link to this comment | )
“Once again, I don’t disagree with you slore. But who else is putting these ideas out there on such a large scale? I don’t think a real documentary would make theaters. I never said I agree with his tactics, quite honestly I don’t.”
I’ve been kicking around making a counter point film the last few days.... I have the equipment around (high end video cams and editing machines) so I could do one on the super cheap… The irony would be, if a public school teacher wants to show Sicko they should (legally… in some states...) be presenting another side… so they could pull my hypothetical film… In this way Moore might (for once) actually help forward debate. :) and I’d encourage people to get more info and think for themselves…
Sounds great slore. When you finish it, are you gonna upload? I’d like to see it.
There are some very important points here that demand addressing:
No, the evil conglomerates run and operated entirely by Decepticons, of course.
Kai, I’m going to have to ask you to stick to one of the appropriate terms for the operational managers. They are to be referred to as either Deceptipunks, Decepticreeps, or Deceptichops - as in, “bust some”. Any further negligence of this matter and I will report you to Cliffjumper.
However, there are many people out there that have no idea about these things until Moore speaks out about it.
MacLir, the problem is, what exactly are “the things” that people learn only when they hear them from Michael Moore? When half of his material are conjured scenarios or bald-faced lies, the other half is a giant steaming pile of snide rhetoric, and the third half are ambush interviews that serve to attack character rather than address any actual issues… what exactly is he bringing to our attention?
Do lies really highlight a health crisis in America? Few reasonable people would say that Area 51 conspiracy theories stories serve to highlight important issues about government, serving the public trust, or the threat of invasion from the stars. Most would rightly say that it’s a bunch of crap that’s not worth their time. Go ahead and plug in oil pipelines, military satellites, vote-rigging, terrorist wheat, or any number of other “truths” that Moore uses to bring the public… what? I have never been clear on exactly what. I am all for hearing the “other side” of any debate, but I hope to God that you don’t consider Moore your spokesperson for the “other side” (or Air America, for that matter).
Last point: Susan’s “purpose”
I think it was a lesson in semantics. I have learned a great deal in the last 15 minutes. Apparently,
the stupidity of United States is shinning through
Blinded by stupidity.
How much more stupid can you people get
Take notes, that is if you can read or write!
are none of them considered “name-calling”. At least, not if it’s directed at an unthinking American. When said American turns your own words around on you, THAT is name-calling.
Hope you’ve all been taking notes.
Oh wait, none of us can read or write.
Which makes a whole lot of sense for a blog site.
Excuse me, but I have to go chew on rocks and scream like a monkey. Because that’s what we sub-human, braindead Americans do, don’t you know. =P
I think the only point she made is that Canadian schools are sub-par.
I think the only point she made is that Canadian schools are sub-par.
Right… Because one illiterate Canadian is representative our entire country!
Right… Because one illiterate Canadian is representative our entire country!
(ironic) You do realize she accused the entire United States of “stupidity” don’t you?
all i can say lee is her brilliance says it all.
The best you can do in this situation is interduce her head to the sound of a shovel ping.
Gatewalker
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What her point was I can’t say. That’s because I’m a stupid American. But I did occur to stupid me she wasn’t looking for a pen pal. :)