(self hating masochist boot lickers) Sincerely regret expressing my opinion of Bushites, OK Art Vandelay you are excused, I would like to hear from JimK an Tboy. how about it men, it is the call to arms. The only problem is the recruitment drive is still lagging. Time to put up or shut up. And what about the trully noble men and women that are serving and disagree with your view. Iraq was not a threat to this nation or the mideast region, he was sufficiently contained. Bush let Bin Laden pull off 9/11 and then get away, Al Qaeda was in Afghanistan not Iraq. Now thanks to the imcompetence of Bush things are much worse.

The kite scene was not staged, these were Iraqis living life before the invasion

NO it wasnt....  unless im mistaken, this footage came after the invasion

plain truth is he is an incompetent sociopath that let Bin Laden pull off 9/11 and then get away

Didnt President Bush actaully let Bin Laden get away, twice… after failing to assisnate him?

Iraq was not a threat to this nation or the mideast region, he was sufficiently contained.

By who?  the UN, who hand their hands in Saddams back pockets?. 

There was a illusion of conataiment, if that, since everyone was being bribed or paid off to ignore Saddams actions

Just because an “environmentalist” or an “environmental” group says something don’t take it as truth.  Rarely do they use science in their arguments, usually just illogical emotion (sounds eerily familiar to the modus operandi of a large “documentary” filmmaker).  Everyone should have a say in the management of our public resources, but science and experience should be used by managers on the ground to actually get things done.  Sorry for being long-winded but the “Bush hates the environment and is trying to poison us all and clearcut all the trees” argument really gets me fired up.

Explain this one to me: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/17/60minutes/main1415985.shtml

Top officials in the Bush administration have been rewriting congressional reports written by SCIENTISTS to hide the fact that global warming is a real threat, specifically James Hansen, who is “arguably the world’s leading researcher on global warming. He’s the head of NASA’s top institute studying the climate.”

Bush has been in denial all along about global warming. 

“We do not know how much our climate could, or will change in the future,” President Bush said in 2001, speaking in the Rose Garden of the White House. “We do not know how fast change will occur, or even how some of our actions could impact it.”

Actually, George, we do know.  And scientists, with no political affiliation whatsoever, have been trying to tell you and Congress about is and for some reason, gee, I wonder what reason it could be, you don’t want anyone to know. 

Also, why did Bush have a former Oil lobbyist, Phil Cooney, working for him as chief-of-staff at the White House Council on Environmental Quality.  Coony recently left that job to work for Exxon. 

Hansen: “In my more than three decades in the government I’ve never witnessed such restrictions on the ability of scientists to communicate with the public.”

So please, read the story, and then explain it to me, and then explain why Bush refused to sign the Kyoto Treaty.  And then after you explain those, I will ask to you explain a bunch of other examples of how Bush has hurt the environment.

Sorry Iggy but the kite scene was preinvasion. Iraq was hogtied by the United States military backed by the United Nations. Certainly there was corruption, but not significant, it is a bigger problem now. As if there is no corruption in the U.S. legislature. Again a call to duty to all of the able and available especially those who support the Bush debacle. I would also reiterate if Bush would have listened to military experts and properly managed the invasion. I would be the first to support a positive result. This guy is just not all that smart nor is he an able leader. During WW2 german soldiers were told by ancestors from WW1 that if they were captured by the U.S. they would be treated well, this resulted in the subversion of resistance. I hope somebody will be able to straighten this mess out.

That doesn’t sound like disagreement (up4debate’s post was disagreement) or discussion (once again, see up4).  It’s namecalling and mudslinging.

This whole site is founded on namecalling and mudslinging, so how can you blame someone for responding with vulgarity.  if Moore wasn’t fat, I dont think there would be much less to comment on ...

Sorry Iggy but the kite scene was preinvasion

How do you know?… Im not saying that im absolutelty right or your absolutely wrong, but i was inder the impression that the scene was post invasion.  (I neeed to look at the film again, but what evidence do you have that it was pre invasion?)

Certainly there was corruption, but not significant,

This might be an understatement.  The oil-for-food scandel seenmed to touch every aspect of the UN.  You might want to do a little more research on that.

As if there is no corruption in the U.S. legislature.

I never said that nor is that a relavent part of this discussion.  Bringing up that point in no way justifies the UN’s corruption with Saddam.

Please check the film again, I am not suggesting that corruption is ok, it just was not a factor with regard to Iraq’s potential for volatility.

Let me add about the whole Kite thing… In your opinion, what was the purpose of showing the kids flying the kite in Iraq?

Im going to have to check the film… i may be wrong, but i thought i saw rubble in the background in the kite scene…

it just was not a factor with regard to Iraq’s potential for volatility.

It didnt have to be, Saddam already proved he was.

I’m sorry I came into this argument because this post is not about the Bush administration’s environmental record.  Sure, they’ve done some good and some bad.  Same with oil companies.  BP, the big evil oil company is also one of the largest producers of solar cells.

Nobody does know how much climate change (a natural process) will actually occur. Remember the global warming that brought us out of the last ice age?  I am fairly certain cars weren’t to blame.  There are mathematical models that predict, which are based on assumptions, some reasonable, some ridiculous.  These are by no means infallible.  Climate change is occuring and to deny it is ridiculous.  The real question is how of it is caused by human beings, something of which we will probably never be entirely certain.

This whole site is founded on namecalling and mudslinging, so how can you blame someone for responding with vulgarity.  if Moore wasn’t fat, I dont think there would be much less to comment on ...

This site is found on exposing a liar with facts and reasonable arguments.  A few cracks at MM for his weight problem are all in good fun.  They hardly make up the basis of any arguments.

$21 million profit and he still purports to represent the “little guy”.  What a joke.

As for the kite scene, it’s kind of obvious to a reasonable person that this illustrates peace and tranquility, used by Moore to suggest pre-war=peaceful paradise, post-war=hellhole.

quote]I dont think there would be much less to comment on...

You don’t? So you think there would be about the same?  More?

All other criticism of Bush aside, he was right for rejecting the Kyoto protocols.  They were nonsensical and wouldn’t accomplish anything other than damaging the economy. 

Comparing the corruption in the US government to that of Iraq is just about the most inane thing I have ever heard.  Our politicians take bribes and violate campaign finance laws.  Saddam was literally filling open pits the size of football fields with the bodies of people he murdered.  His military was also firing at US citizens on a daily basis.

if Moore wasn’t fat, I dont think there would be much less to comment on ...

You’re absolutely right; there’d still be plenty.  Moore could have a physique like Brad Pitt and he’d still be a lying sack of shit.

Wow, Ive missed alot!

Up4, how long had David Lesar held the stock he sold?  Is it long or short term capital gains?  What grade is the stock?  Were they options?

The stock he sold, from what I read, was not all one transaction.  It was (if I remember correctly) somewhere around a couple dozen transactions.  Ill have to find the link with the list again.  There were different grades of stock, and yes, some were options he was selling. 

As for how long he held each share, Ive got no idea.  Not sure of the relevance.  He had a bunch of stock, after the war contracts it started going up in value, and he cashed some of it out. 

Im not comparing this to MM.  I dont think you would accept an officer of a corporation as someone else who made money off the war.  Unless it was some strange corporation that was only set up to service the war.  But as stupid as it is for the left to scream “Halliburton Halliburton” all the time, it is equally as stupid for anyone to think they havent made money off the war.  Im not even saying its wrong that they make money off the war.  I do think if a company gets a huge no-bid contract like that though, because they are the only ones who can do it, youve got to keep an eye on them. 

SirNot made an excellent argument regarding the increased costs of operating in a war zone.  I accept that.  Im still not convinced they are being 100% above board with their expenses though.  They basically have a monopoly in their market.  They can charge whatever they want.  They basically have a responsibility to their shareholders to make as much off of these contracts as possible.

I cant compare Lesars stock gains to MMs profit sharing from him movie.  I dont have the knowledge, tools, or time to determine what part the war contracts played in increasing his net worth. 

With that in mind, I also find it difficult to attribute 100% of MMs profits to the war.  You call it the centerpeice of his movie.  Possibly.  Just from memory, I think it makes up the last half of the movie.  Was the war all he talked about?  No.  There were a few other things he covered I think (9/11, Bush - Saudi ties, Carlyle Group, Aphghanistan, Unical, 2000 Election, Bush Vacation, 7 minutes).  Just going from memory here.  Would he have made a movie even if the Iraq war didnt happen.  Having just come off the success of BFC, his opposition to Bush, and 9/11, it would be very difficult for me to imagine him not doing a movie. 

Can you really attribute 100% of his profits to the war?  I think that would be a little difficult.

Kite scene meant nothing to me, kids flying kites. The rubble in the background is the remnants of Desert Storm bombings.

Sadaam was volatile at the behest of the U.S. he was our little monster. After Desert Storm he was locked down, you are in a circle pattern. How about you are you eligible to serve? What is your alibi?

Kite scene meant nothing to me, kids flying kites

then what was the point of bringing it up?

I am ineligble to serve to to my allergies and asthma (which is ironic since i am very athletic and was involved in several sports teams in highschool/college.).  I do have serveral friends that did enlist however. 

I should also add, that everyone cannot join the military.  Some of us conservatives need to hold down the fort at home so you libs dont turn everything upside down :)

I should also add, that everyone cannot join the military.  Some of us conservatives need to hold down the fort at home so you libs dont turn everything upside down

<my best homer loud whispering voice>I think he’s onto our plan</my best homer loud whispering voice>

I would like to hear from JimK an Tboy. how about it men, it is the call to arms.

Well first of all tough guy, I tore my ACL at the age of 19. And have had 2 more surgeries since then, so even if I did try to enlist, I don’t think they would allow me.

Second, I have talked to a few guys who have been there and back a couple times. Do they say it’s all paradise to be there? NO. Do they say they believe in what they are fighting for is better for our country and Iraq? YES.

So, I really don’t have a problem with SUPPORTING OUR TROOPS and the cause. Because I have heard first hand from our guys who are protecting your freedoms.

So drop the “if you support, then enlist bullshit” and go back to DU where you belong!

flodrive-

To quote Terrence Howards character in the movie Crash…

You embarrass me.  You embarrass yourself.

PS> How good is Terrence Howard?!?!  Awesome.  Just awesome.

Second, I have talked to a few guys who have been there and back a couple times. Do they say it’s all paradise to be there? NO. Do they say they believe in what they are fighting for is better for our country and Iraq? YES.

Funny, thats the exact same thing my firends tell me about Iraq.

Oddly enough, thats not what liberal media says… (i wonder who’s more accurate, those that fight over there and see the progress, or those that have the ‘journalistic integrity’ to report their opinions?)

Do they say it’s all paradise to be there? NO.

Funny, thats the exact same thing my firends tell me about Iraq.

Oddly enough, thats not what liberal media says

I hate it when the liberal media tries to tell me its like paradise over there for the troops.  :)

Oddly enough, thats not what liberal media says… (i wonder who’s more accurate, those that fight over there and see the progress, or those that have the ‘journalistic integrity’ to report their opinions?)

Too bad for our men and women over there that this is what OUR own media wants to portray. It’s pretty sad when your agenda takes prescedent over fellow Americans lives.

I hate it when the liberal media tries to tell me its like paradise over there for the troops.

??????

Sorry, I missed that one Up4.

You brought up the kite scene, keep that circle pattern. More cosmetic conservatives should go and serve, they really have trouble attracting recruits. Of course it is easier to let the other guy stick his neck out. Perhaps Bush’s daughters should enlist. OK 2 up 2 down how about you JimK? I do support the troops I give a pint of blood every 59 days. I just wish Bush did, we are there for U.S. oil companies to steal the oil then screw us at the pump. I reiterate where is Bin Laden, Bush let him get away with 9/11 and Bush admits he doesn’t think about it much, (It’s Hard Work Daddy)

Do they say it’s all paradise to be there?

NO.

Funny, thats the exact same thing my firends tell me about Iraq.

Oddly enough, thats not what liberal media says
I hate it when the liberal media tries to tell me its like paradise over there for the troops

Ive seen this type of editing before,… oh yeah F9/11:)

Sorry, I missed that one Up4.

It was just a joke.  Playing with his words a bit.  The troops come back saying its not paradise over there.  The liberal media would have us believe the opposite.  That it IS paradise over there!

Ive seen this type of editing before,… oh yeah F9/11

Touche!

You brought up the kite scene

Posted by flodrive on 03/22 at 04:37 PM

Michael Moore, war profiteer? You self hating masochist boot lickers are dredging the muck. Of course Moore made money, people willingly paid for his product. I thought that was the American way. Why anyone would would snit over this is amusing (your slip is showing). SHOW ME THE LIES. The kite scene was not staged, these were Iraqis living life before the invasion, certainly things were not perfect under Sadaam Hussein he was a tough dictator the globe is peppered with them. I would be the first one to applaud Bush if there was success after the lies. The plain truth is he is an incompetent sociopath that let Bin Laden pull off 9/11 and then get away. If it would have been a President Gore in office on 9/11 it would have been all his fault.

I reiterate where is Bin Laden, Bush let him get away with 9/11 and Bush admits he doesn’t think about it much,

How about CLinton missing his oppurtunity to get Bin Laden during Clinton’s Presidency.  ONe couls argue that had Clinton NOT let Bin Laden go, then Bin laden could not have executed his attacks.

I gotcha. Sometimes I never know about you though.  :)

Pkay - I will let Art Van continue this argument for me on Bush’s environmental issues. He seems MUCH more competent than myself and so far he has shared all the same views I hold. I espcially like what he said about not believing everything Libs and environmnentalists say. On the website you referred to us, all that was stated was 100% negative things about Bush’s environment history. Of course you have the view that he has done nothing because that is ALL they reported! They have conveniently deleted all of the things Art Van mentioned and/or simply not included them on their site. It’s easy to say someone is a certain way when you fail to share all the facts. That’s why I exercise caution on THIS website in what people state as fact vs. opinion.

I gotcha. Sometimes I never know about you though.

Its hard out here for a moonbat libtard.

Yes, I seem to recall that the Saudi’s offered up Bin Laden but for whatever reason, Clinton declined.

If it’s true then I guess that was a bad call, huh?

I do support the troops I give a pint of blood every 59 days.

Congrats you’re my new fucking hero. If only we had more brave souls like you.... Unfortunately all we have are pussies like this guy: 

http://stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article;=33481&archive;=true

How about this, you try to think of something, anything, that you don’t blame on the US.  If you come up with something, post it, and I’ll rationalize some stupid ass reason why it is our fault.  I guarantee my admittedly asinine rationalization will make as much sense as anything you’ve ever posted.

Clinton was gunning for Bin Laden and missed him by hours, but all the perverts were obsessed with Monica and were crying wag the dog no blood for Monica. They had a bead on Osama at a wedding he attended in the UAE, but they did not want to risk killing any of the royal family. No problem with killing poor folks though. What the hell was Bush doing for 8 months beside ignoring intelligence reports and his job. Get over the red herring kite scene, somebody else said it was staged and I disagreed. It’s not important. They attacked the WTC just after Clinton took office and every perpetrator was rounded up and convicted. Beside Clinton did not blame Bush 1 for it, he did his job, which is more than can ever be said for Bush.

Posted by pkay on 03/22 at 04:20 AM (Link to this comment)

“The above comment is just, I just don’t know what to say....really really....unbelievable! The Libs are preventing Bush from saving the environment becaus they can’t stop talking about this giant mess in Iraq?”

Yes, it is a little much. But the environmental policies of both parties are very similar and overall positive. Example, all the Canadian grandstanding about ‘their’ progressive environmental policies is BS; they usually adopt US standards after we put them in effect. The dems have picked up the environment as an ‘issue’. They puff up minor differences as ‘proof’ the republicans are out for big business to screw the people / environment. Partisan politics / hype / fear mongering.

As to alt fuels… well, government and politicians can only do so much. I remember many past presidents promising more and achieving nothing. Really, we need a few innovations to make alternative fuels more affordable…. Government research aid may help… may not. BTW, after we do invent something, of course we will still be evil to the Euros because all engines create CO2….

If I am your hero because I give blood regularly, I am sincerely flattered, Thank You Dear but it is nothing really.

Clinton was gunning for Bin Laden and missed him by hours, but all the perverts were obsessed with Monica and were crying wag the dog no blood for Monica. They had a bead on Osama at a wedding he attended in the UAE, but they did not want to risk killing any of the royal family. No problem with killing poor folks though. What the hell was Bush doing for 8 months beside ignoring intelligence reports and his job. Get over the red herring kite scene, somebody else said it was staged and I disagreed. It’s not important. They attacked the WTC just after Clinton took office and every perpetrator was rounded up and convicted. Beside Clinton did not blame Bush 1 for it, he did his job, which is more than can ever be said for Bush.

LMAO!

You owe me a new monitor! I just covered mine with Mountain Dew!

OMG Still LMAO!

You actually drink that garbage?

Posted by flodrive on 03/23 at 04:44 AM (Link to this comment)

“Like most neocons that never directly address the question or argument then toss red herrings. I suspect he is a typical CHICKENHAWK.”

Oh the irony. Talking about red herrings and then neocons and CHICKENHAWKs....

I slick willy can, why can’t I? He is your hero right?

What was Bush doing leading up to 9/11? That is too difficult to respond to it is easier to go after Clinton. It’s hard work Daddy!

im gonna let all that go…

you can think about what you did and tellme you’re sorry when you’re ready. 

wait, where does able danger fit into all that?

Not my hero, just observing he did a better job than Bush the loser that is obviously your hero. He has to be anybody that screws things up so bad but non thinkers still defend him.

Posted by pkay on 03/23 at 06:51 AM (Link to this comment)

“Bush has been in denial all along about global warming.”

Perhaps… or maybe his argument has been twisted. That aside, how many democrat senators voted for the Kyoto treaty when it was actually up for a vote? They talk a good partisan game, but they know that treaty is bogus too and wouldn’t vote for it either.

Believe me it’s hard work. but stay behind me folk’s don’t question anything. Don’t worry I won’t screw you, just grab a blind fold and TRUST ME. (Is that how you do it daddy?)

Not my hero, just observing he did a better job than Bush the loser that is obviously your hero. He has to be anybody that screws things up so bad but non thinkers still defend him.

Man you have got to stop. This is the funniest crap I have heard in a long time.

You need to take this show on the road. No one will come and see you, but at least you will feel like you are accomplishing something. Maybe Al Franken can get you on his show. That will be a hit! AWESOME!  (sorry Up4 for stealing your little one liner, BUT it just perfectly seems to fit.)

the invoice is in the mail.