Read This First
This entry will be updated over time to contain links to information I want people to understand before they write stories, blog posts, comments or nasty emails about me or this situation. Please take a moment to read over the information before you do anything else. Thank you.
Here because of the appearance of this site in Sicko? Read this and this before commenting. Also, please continue reading the rest of this post for important information before you comment here or send any email to any author on this site.
1. ATTENTION PEOPLE FLOODING MY INBOX: I thanked Moore. Read more about it below before you email me to yell at me.
I thanked him when he was hiding his identity, I thanked him when he made it known, I thanked him again after that. I even did it a few times after the third one. Moore himself has stated that I thanked him.
HW: Did Jim, who runs the ‘anti-Michael Moore’ Web site [Moorewatch.com], ever find out that you were his mysterious donor?
MM: I left him a message recently to let him know that I was the person who sent him the money[to meet his wife’s medical bills], because I wanted him to know before the premiere of my film. I received a very gracious note from him thanking me and wishing the film well. I hope it turns out ok.
You all will have to find another reason to call me names now.
2. NOTE FROM LEE: To the people flooding my inbox, I AM NOT JIM. I am the co-founder of this website. We all know that Michael Moore fans aren’t the brightest group in the world, but if you want to send hate mail to Jim, how about clicking the right goddamned link? Here’s a clue: the one that says “Jim” is the one you want. The one that says “Lee” is the wrong one.
3. In reference to Lee’s note: PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE AUTHOR’S NAME IN EACH POST. It’s in big, bold text at the top of each entry. If you have a complaint or a comment, please make sure you are addressing the person who actually wrote the entry. Lee and I excercise almost no editorial control over anything that is posted by our other writers. We all have our own unique way of writing, our own ideas, our own voices. If you take issue with something posted here, the very least you could do is to look and see who it was that wrote whatever it is that has pissed you off. :)
4. If you feel yourself wanting to use the old chestnuts of “Faux Newz” or screaming to me about Hannity or O’Reilly or Limbaugh, please take a moment before you do and read this. Thank you.
5. If you’re a regular reader of the site, would you consider filling out the Blog Reader Survey? All data is private, as per the privacy policy located here. Survey is closed...thanks to all who participated!
6. Looking for a discussion on what to do about U.S. health care? Start here and chime in with your suggestions.
7. Oh look, Moore himself saying that this site shouldn’t close and that I shouldn’t stop speaking, as so many Moore fans have been saying (and demanding).
In the film, you mention anonymously helping the man who runs the biggest anti-Michael Moore Web site to pay some medical bills. Now that your assistance is no longer anonymous, have you had any further contact with him?
Yes, I called him before the first time we screened it at the film festival in Cannes and told him it was me. I didn’t want him to be surprised by it.And what did he say?
He was very grateful and thanked me and wished the film well.And then said, “I’m still going to talk smack about you on my Web site tomorrow”?
Ha. Well, he might. That’s my point. His freedom of speech shouldn’t be taken away just because he can’t afford health insurance.
Can we move past this point yet?
8. Before you send an email that includes any variation on “Why does this site exist?” or ‘Why do you talk about Moore when ____is more evil?” I want you to read the answer here.
Comments
JimK, still avoiding my question, oh and sorry that I get a little flustered when talking to the likes of you and your friends. Anyone third person I think would agree you a bunch of foul months kids, I can’t believe you have a wife, I would have thought you were 15 years old.
unitedpeople, you haven’t explained at all how it isn’t being spread around, in your view, or how people would benefit if regional resources were kept regional.
In fact, you didn’t address a single point I raised in my first paragraph at all. I answered your question, and you didn’t respond to the main thrust of my answer at all. Its as though you either can’t argue it, or don’t want to acknowledge or discuss the very topic you suggested should be discussed since you haven’t tried to counter any of that. In fact, you only acknowledged I’m right about capitalism aiding in the transfer of goods, and that itself is spreading the natural wealth of our environment.
In short, I’m saying based on the arguement above that the wealth IS being spread out. Not perfectly evenly, but then there’s no merit-based way in which everyone WOULD get the same thing, so I dont’ think that is a problem. What would be the better system without capitalism? Whats the alternative where people would benefit more? Make your case on how there ISN’T any wealth being spread.
Posted by unitedpeople on 06/16 at 04:39 PM (Link to this comment)
“What I’m asking is why isn’t this amazing wealth that capitalism creates isn’t spread out?”
1) People in the third world don’t believe in capitalism / the free market.. Their elites tend to be either western educated leftists… or even right wing anti-capitalists..
2) Lack of respect for the rule of law. You can’t have a free market with out rule of law. Other people can always just take what you build… so why build anything?
3) Variation on two.. Corruption is accepted.
4) Western attempts to ‘help’. Tons of aid just distorts the market and keep it from taking root. Why make anything locally when stuff just keeps showing up from the west as aid.
This list doesn’t only apply to the undeveloped world… you could just as easily use it to describe say Russia (except they have oil instead of aid)…
JimK, still avoiding my question, oh and sorry that I get a little flustered when talking to the likes of you and your friends. Anyone third person I think would agree you a bunch of foul months kids, I can’t believe you have a wife, I would have thought you were 15 years old.
As always, such an impressive job of being able to raise above the insults.
Just someone at least admit that it’s a problem that humanity is not spreading the wealth and it would be enough for me to leave you guys alone!
First I would like for the leaders of the Democrat and Liberal movements to do this.
Why don’t you demand leaders of Liberalism in this country, like Gore, Edwards, Kerry, Clinton, Nader, ect. give all their millions to the poor and live a pay-check to pay-check budget? They talk the talk, but don’t walk the walk.
But don’t you think Moore is doing more good things then a lot of people in the movie industry?
No.
Posted by bismarck on 06/16 at 05:18 PM (Link to this comment)
I don’t know about that. unitedpeople sounds very conflicted - raging against others for being hateful, consumed with worry about other people’s money, “sharing” other people’s property… it’s kind of sad, in a way. Sounds like he has some animosity for his fellow man.
Word. Like more socialists he is a hater and just projects it all onto his political opponents…
We aren’t going to get into this again? Where everyone harpes on me because of my faults. Yes, it’s a fault of mine that I have such hated for JimK that I have to tell him how I feel. But what makes us different is I direct my hate to the people causing the hate & pain, where you direct it towards ppl like me. I’ve already admitted I’m not perfect, I know it, and I’m totally OK with it. I have a simple question that I want you guys to answer, and NONE of you can. All you guys can do is talk about something related to the question or drown on about things you think are flaws in me instead of the world. Answer the question someone?
united, please respond to Lowbacca’s post from 06/16 at 05:18PM
sl0re, that’s a horrible answer. You still avoid the question, ok I’ll go really slow this time. There is a huge amount of money being stored, I won’t argue it, read if you don’t know. Your saying the third world wouldn’t accept help because Their elites tend to be either western educated leftists… or even right wing anti-capitalists.., that’s a bunch of bs.
Well one flaw in the world that I can think of, is people who think its ok to not pay for their internet, while the people who work to provide that internet loses that money. Who knows, maybe the guy who lays the internet wire in the ground can’t feed his family tonight because some people in this world think its ok to not pay for their internet. Maybe that internet provider had to make some pay cuts, and “Mr. Trying to provide for his family” is now hurting because a hand-ful of people are selfish.
But what makes us different is I direct my hate to the people causing the hate & pain, where you direct it towards ppl like me.
Actually, what makes us different is that you have hatred, and I wish no ill will upon you. I just think you’re an ill-informed hypocrite.
Lowbacca, I’ve made my question as simple as possible and you can try and make it as complex as you want, it’s still a problem. Also, I’m not saying that resources need to stay local, but on that subject I believe that some countries are robbed of there resources, whether it be oil, gold, copper, or even diamonds. For example, iraq has an estimated 7 trillion dollars worth of oil on it, if you split that up every iraq citizen would be a millionaire. Of course, the wealth will not be distrubuted like that in any way. And how it’s not being distributed is due to world wide poverty that exists.
"And how it’s not being distributed is due to world wide poverty that exists.” is the answer to Lowbacca question as to how I feel the wealth is not distributed correctly.
Lets give everyone on the planet the same amount of money, yeah that will solve all the worlds problems.
Hagis, quit putting words in my month. I just gave you an example of the magnitude of how unfair the wealth is distributed.
Lowbacca, I’ve made my question as simple as possible and you can try and make it as complex as you want
Wait a minute - most of the times, conservatives are told that they’re too simplistic in their reasoning, and that they should realize how complex most problems are. Now you’re telling us that’s not the case? Lowbacca and sl0re have made some very reasoned and reasonable responses, yet you’re dismissing those with a simple “And how it’s not being distributed is due to world wide poverty that exists”?
Is this your main thesis -
- that everyone should be a millionaire?For example, iraq has an estimated 7 trillion dollars worth of oil on it, if you split that up every iraq citizen would be a millionaire
Guys, let this troll die. He admitted he can’t discuss Moore on any kind of rational or informed level, so he’s useless to the discussions here. he’s lied, insulted, demonstrated a distinct lack of class and respect and generally done everything short of insult my wife.
Let him prattle until he gets bored. Just ignore him. Don’t get sucked into his ridiculous discussions. We have more intelligent people we can be talking with.
bismark, Come on, read, I’m dismissing those because they aren’t even answers my specific question! I’ve made it very clear that I’m talking about all the wealth we are storing instead of helping those in need, nobody has answered that question. I know the answer, but someone here must as well?
What words did I put your mouth?
For example, iraq has an estimated 7 trillion dollars worth of oil on it, if you split that up every iraq citizen would be a millionaire.
unitedpeople, without capitalism, they would have nothing. In iraq, the oil is so common that it wouldn’t have much value. Its valuable only to the countries that DON’T have it. If you removed capitalism, that oil would be worthless to the Iraqi people beyond their direct use of it.
Also note, ans slOre mentioned this… capitalism doesn’t exist throughout the world. Some areas, but not all. Economic structure and gov’t involvement in it is tied to why areas like much of Africa have such problems. Whereas here in the United States, faults as they are, still doesn’t have a big problem with people dying of starvation. Your correct distribution seems only to be if every person receives the same amount and all is equal, which is idealistic and impractical, as well as ignoring that removing personal reward will lead to many things grinding to a halt when incentives are removed.
bismar[c]k, Come on, read, I’m dismissing those because they aren’t even answers my specific question! I’ve made it very clear that I’m talking about all the wealth we are storing instead of helping those in need, nobody has answered that question. I know the answer, but someone here must as well?
Thank you for illustrating JimK’s point, and for providing us with tap-dancing entertainment.
Nevermind, sorry JimK, I posted before I read your post.
I will stop feeding this troll.
bismark, Come on, read, I’m dismissing those because they aren’t even answers my specific question! I’ve made it very clear that I’m talking about all the wealth we are storing instead of helping those in need, nobody has answered that question. I know the answer, but someone here must as well?
You are acting as though there is a solution that will suddenly lead to no starvation and no rape, etc. There is NO way to allow people to be free and also remove all the negative things that happen when people have choice.
JimK, yes Jim, tell yourself I’m stupid and I’m not like everyone else that now hates you. You better stick close to these guys, I don’t think anyone else likes you! You call me stupid but can’t answer my simple question, maybe you feel guilty about your life or what you spend your time doing? What is wrong with you Jim? Have you no soul? I’m out of here anyway, I give up. The answer is GREED. Greed is why the wealth isn’t distributed. Greed runs thru my veins as it runs thru yours and everyone elses. It’s just too few that can rise above it, for now. Good luck to all of you and your hate web site, me and the rest of the world are going to go puke now.
Greed runs thru my veins
I guess that explains the internet theft. I mean, sharing.
You are acting as though there is a solution that will suddenly lead to no starvation and no rape, etc. There is NO way to allow people to be free and also remove all the negative things that happen when people have choice. You don’t think we can do WAY better then what we are doing. Plus I didn’t ask for a solution, I said WHY isn’t the worlds wealth distrubted. Greed is the problem and there are millions of things we could be doing better.
I can’t help but to laugh at united’s last comment. sorry had to do it! LOL
The answer is GREED.
Jesus H. Christ, the answer was in front of me the whole time! I feel so stupid!
Hey guys, I’m leaving, you all is teh st00pid!
... okay NOW I’m leaving.
No really, this is the last time.
srsly
Posted by unitedpeople on 06/16 at 05:33 PM (Link to this comment)
sl0re, that’s a horrible answer. You still avoid the question, ok I’ll go really slow this time. There is a huge amount of money being stored,…
I answered that in the first of my two responses you smug prick. I said there is no such thing as money ‘stored’ in a bank. Any money ‘in’ a bank is reloaned and put back into circulation / use. When you didn’t acknowledge it and said no one had answered your question, I tried answering on another level.
Speaking of slow, if you were intelligent yourself you’d know these things. You have a cartoonist leftist / Moore-on / ignorant understanding of how capitalism works.
Posted by unitedpeople on 06/16 at 06:08 PM (Link to this comment)
“The answer is GREED. Greed is why the wealth isn’t distributed.”
Probably more envy in your case… which you project onto everyone ‘not on your side’ as greed.
late
I answered that in the first of my two responses you smug prick. I said there is no such thing as money ‘stored’ in a bank. Any money ‘in’ a bank is reloaned and put back into circulation / use.
“You’re thinking about this place all wrong, as if I have the money back in the safe. The money’s not here. Well, your money’s in Joe’s house, that’s right next to yours. And the Kennedy house, and Mrs. Maitlin’s house and a hundred others. You’re lending them the money to build, and then they’re going to pay it back to you as best they can.” /Wonderful Life
FWIW, the Federal Reserve Rate is I think just under 6%. That means the banks are required by the federal governemnt to keep that back that much of their funds. The rest, as you said, is typically in circulation. I imagine most other banks around the world operate in a similar fashion. Then there’s always the world bank, so he can orgasm over the money they redistribute, if he so desires.
You remember back in junior high when everything was of such amplified importance, and you were sure you had the answer to life, the universe and everything, and it was so blindingly simple, but no one else was wise enough to get it? I think unitedpeople lives perpetually in that world.
Posted by w0rf on 06/16 at 07:12 PM (Link to this comment)
The rest, as you said, is typically in circulation. I imagine most other banks around the world operate in a similar fashion.
Yeah, if they’re paying interest to people with deposits, it has to be out in circulation earning money for the bank to pay the interest…
Stewart Hart, I can hardly read what you are writing it’s so f’in crazy! I guy who spends his time at a hate web site is telling me that I’m a slave that cannot be free. My information doesn’t come from Micheal Moore. I watch very small independent documentaries about the world, the kind that wouldn’t be allowed to be shown on TV. You can find them on BitTorrent for free, i suggest you goto a BT site and search documentary and begin to educate yourself. Your argument is that people like me are fed these lyes by Big Media and that we are depriving democracy, but you sound like you were educated on cross-fire.
LOL I lied again apparently… I just couldn’t NOT comment… Cuz I am SO SICK of when the Mooreons do this. It’s a freakin’ formula:
1. Mooreon makes statement.
2. Mooreon’s statement is counteracted.
3. Mooreon tried to counter the challenge.
4. Mooreon is then proven wrong.
5. Mooreon then either:
a. refuses certain topics (always the ones they were getting hammered on)., and/or:
b. refuses any further discussion--generally tosses out an insult as to how dumb/naïve/crazy/hateful the person(s) giving the intellectual pounding is.
unitedpeople, you are a sad cliché. I’m simply amazed: You’ll go out of your way to download documentaries via BitTorrent but A) you won’t backtrack on the posts this site to educate yourself on what’s been said, and B) you’d rather toss baseless insults--
Stewart Hart, I can hardly read what you are writing it’s so f’in crazy!
…spends his time at a hate web site…
…you sound like you were educated on cross-fire…
than make an effort to understand folks. And when you come here, insulting folks, demanding JimK give back the money Moore gave him, you shift the subject--then get mad when people don’t shift with you.
You’re an admitted thief (internet, and the documentaries), and you think it’s OK for Moore to lie as long as he’s “doing something.”
BUT THEN: Lookie what Moore & Co. are doing:
Ok, let’s start with this then. Thanks to big business, over 50% of the world’s wealth is stored offshore bank accounts (source: The Tax Haven Guidebook). Please explain how storing over 50% of the world’s wealth is good for planet earth and how it benefits humanity as a whole.
I think everyone is getting pretty sick of hearing you drown on about how Micheal Moore is getting rich, I know I am.
So which is it? You said you’re sick of hearing how rich Moore and his pals are, but then you whine about them and their ilk storing their money? … Albeit money is a bank isn’t really “stored” but let’s move on…
This is an AWESOME lead in for the deviating side question you raised to avoiding explaining yourself:
That is my question for you, and the only thing that I care for you to answer. Why can’t it go to the people who need it? Why should they just die or suffer? I’ll be very amazed if someone answers that for me, then i will leave.
LISTEN TO YOURSELF!!!
You ask why money can’t go to needy, suffering people. But you came to this site to DEMAND that JimK and his suffering wife give back the chump-change the millionaire Moore gave to alleviate their suffering?
I’ll answer that question of yours for you: people suffer because greedy @$$holes have tools like YOU. Folks like Castro, The Coffee Companies, chain-store like Target, the alleged “green” technology field, and all the other forces Big Corporate Media protect strip the world bare. They are a minority--except that folks like you are easily manipulated through a steady-stream of focus-group tested propaganda, such that not only do you have no real clue about what’s going on in the world, but that you accept any form of misdeeds by the wrong-doers themselves to change it so its even more in their favor.
The sad thing is, the Global Left takes it upon itself to police big corporations: but who polices the ones the Left likes? Answer: No one. Case in point: European Oil Companies who literally traded the blood of the Iraqi people for oil. Nope, no need for the Left to go after them…
I describe folks like you as EW Liberals--Extremist Whacko Liberals. A Normal Liberal I can sit down with, we air our views, and we go home. As a Populist, I even care about many of the economic and social-justice concerns a Liberal has.
But I cannot rationally, nor do I ever, ignore reality. There are many things I’d like to see done that just aren’t feasible.
But then there’s the extremist: You want something so bad you twist and distort reality and rely on emotions where facts fail. All in the name of “doing something”. And you not only think it’s ok, you defend it!
THAT is why I oppose Moore. For as much as what he wants sounds good, what he wants to be done will do more harm then good--as what he wants relies on a reality that doesn’t exist. The lying, etc. is only icing on the crap-cake.
Making a difference in itself isn’t necessarily a good. You need to make sure you make a positive difference. And the first step to changing the world is facing it as it is.
Your right, he does use a grey hat style of reporting the information, but that’s what needs to be done sometimes to get people to see.
It’s ok for people to LIE if it is towards the greater good right? Lines like this show me that you are not even worth debating with.
Big business uses far dirtier tactics to enslave the world,
This is a logical fallacy on your part. It is the same type of logic found mostly in children. I don’t debate with children on the street and I certainly won’t debate with you. Instead I’ll point out how soulless and witless you are.
2 wrongs do not make a right. One bad thing does not justify another “lesser” bad thing. These are basic things that you need to understand.
Moore makes money by spreading misery and discontent amongst the people. He thrives off of being able to rouse people up because he rationalizes, much in the same way you do, that it is for the greater good, though he is spreading misinformation that only upsets people - even the people who believe it. Moore then collects a hefty check and capitalizes off the misery he has created. No amount of rationalizing will change this. There are other people like Moore who make a living off of this same type of technique daily.
I suppose I’ll scroll back and read the other things you’ve posted but I’m surprised that anyone actually took the time to do a point by point debate with a grown man who obviously has the thought processes and integrity of a child.
Pious Fraud is still on the master list of Logical Fallacies, so I know all that I need to know about the strength of his logic.
It’s ok for people to LIE if it is towards the greater good right?
And therein lies the problem with Moore and his ilk; they honestly believe that the ends justify the means.
That was quite an entertaining thread. I wonder if the guy also made his own clothes, shoes, cooking utensils, paper, medical products, contraceptives, soap, gardening equipment, plumbing supplies, lumber, adhesives, and books. Food and water are immediate needs, but there are many others that have to be met as well. So far, no economic system has been able to meet these needs as well as capitalism has. Of course, if you’re able to see into the eternities, like unitedpeople can, and know what lies ahead, little things like global economics are bound to fall by the wayside.
It really was like watching a good PRIDE or UFC beatdown.
Except in a good PRIDE or UFC match, there’s actually a contest.
This is awesome the place has gone all phsycho again! woot!
So, we’re against lying for the greater good, right? Guess who said this.....
I’m literally at the point where if the President comes on TV this Thursday and says “I completely lied, fully intended to fool all of you and I did it to invade Iraq, so suck it, bitches.” I am not sure I would care at *all*.
Why? Why would I forgoive something like that? Because thousands...maybe hundreds of thousands...potentially MILLIONS of lives were saved. Whatever the reason you believe we went to Iraq, we saved lives.
Think about that for a minute.
We. Saved. Lives.
JimK. In 2004. Back when he liked Bush. And thought the war was a great idea.
I know I posted something similiar a little bit further down, but I’d really like to know the difference between what JimK says and how people here would react to a quote like: “If Moore’s movie can get socialized health care in this country (for Sicko), or pull out American troops (Farenheit), then the lies are justified.
Leave it to a Moore-on to ignore the part where I said I wasn’t SURE if I’d care.
Just like a Moore fan to take a quote out of context and then ignore the part that debunks his dumbass point…
I’m pretty sure I have the upper hand, here. Isn’t your contention that the possibility of apathy (or even support) after being lied to just as damning?
Also, if you think the quote is out of context, then please add some context (I was going to say “contextualize”, but I don’t think that’s a word). Because, as I read it, you were saying that the possibility that Bush lied us into Iraq could be justified under the fact that we (as a superpower) did the ethical thing by taking Hussein out of power. I don’t even know that I disagree with that. But this is about a greater issue, which is this: how does one deal with being lied to? I think (in a way) it’s kind of the whole point of this website. But prove me wrong.
I also know that I sent you an e-mail about this, Jim. But this just seemed like fun. I do mean what I said about hoping you and yours are better. As I now leave to pick my wife up from the airport, I know how important a healthy family is.
The context is within that original posting. JimK was tired of the liberal harping that Bush lied us into war, and was expressing frustration with it.
At least, that’s how I took it.
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I don’t know about that. unitedpeople sounds very conflicted - raging against others for being hateful, consumed with worry about other people’s money, “sharing” other people’s property… it’s kind of sad, in a way. Sounds like he has some animosity for his fellow man.