I just received a polite email from a reader named Nicole, entitled simply “Why?”
You seem to really hate Michael Moore, for reasons that aren’t evident on moorewatch.com. So my question to you is, why?
My response.
You obviously haven’t read the blog much. We don’t “hate” Michael Moore. I think he’s a scumbag, and I think he’s wrong on virtually everything. That being said, Moorewatch is a repository of information that rebuts Michael Moore’s bullshit. God knows nobody in the media will ever question anything he says, so we assumed this task ourselves.
When he says that socialized medicine is a wonderful thing, and Cuba is a paradise of free medicine, we provide hard, factual evidence that he’s lying out his ass.
It’s got nothing to do with hate, and everything to do with showing the world what a vulgar liar he is.
Seriously, read the blog. Learn something. For example, if you believe in fabulous government-run “free” healthcare for everyone you should at least have the intellectual honesty to be able to defend that position. I disagree with Moore and I can tell you exactly why, and can provide copious amounts of information in support of what I believe. If you disagree, fine, that’s a perfectly legitimate thing to do. But you should be able to provide an honest, intellectual rebuttal to what we’ve posted. And if you can’t, do a little soul-searching and ask yourself why.
Hate has nothing to do with it, Nicole. Keep an open mind. All the best.
I always wonder why so many people attribute what we do on this site to hatred of Michael Moore, when I think that even a cursory reading of the site would show that, while we clearly dislike the man, we’re making a sincere effort to be a counterweight to his lies, distortions, and general bullshit.
(Note: Polite emails get the author’s identity protected. People who write idiotic hate mail will be posted with full information so the rest of the world can make fun of them too.)
Take a moment and refresh your memory by reading this post, specifically the update to it. I just received a follow-up email from the author of that update, and I’d like to post it here.
Lee I am the guy that had the Pancreatitis that you featured in your post on right-thinking and morewatch.
I just wanted to let you know how the billing for this went. After spending 3 days in the hospital - in a private room none the less. After getting infused with bag after bag of drugs to get my body back on track and getting more morphine than an addict on the street for the pain I got the bill for the treatment.
$12,625.35
A hell of alot more than I can pay thats for sure. Hey your co-admin has Michael Moore to thank, I have the City and County of Denver and it’s taxpayers. I was told to go to the finacial aid office and after all is said and done guess how much I owe?
$100.10 Thats it $12,525.25 paid for by some unknown persons somewhere. I did not ask where they get the funding for this program. But thats not the case. The 100.10 that I am paying are proccessing fees! Fees that cannot be waived and that I must pay. So actually this financial assistance paid the ENTIRE BILL!
Who the hell says we don’t have free health care when it is required? And as I said before my care was top notch (allthough I was asleep most the time) in a state of the art hospital KNOWING I COULD NOT PAY THE BILL!
I can send you copies of the bills if you need them.
No, that won’t be necessary. I’ve had the same thing happen to me. When my father was admitted to the hospital in in severe cardiac failure, one of the first things my mother said was that we didn’t have insurance. The head doctor, a world-renowned cardio-thoracic surgeon, said to my mom, “Don’t worry about the bill. Your husband will get all the treatment he needs. We’ll worry about the bill later.”
Not exactly the “dumped at Skid Row” scenario that Moore paints, is it? Now, the Skid Row dumping in Los Angeles absolutely happened, and it was disgusting. But he painted at as the norm, when it is clearly the exception, and the public was outraged about it when it came to light. (Oddly, that aspect of the case didn’t make it into the movie. What a strange coincidence.)
After the weeks of never-ending hate mail we have been receiving from Moore fans, it was an absolute delight to receive this one from C. Chrisp of Alberta, Canada.
Dear Jim and Lee;
I just watched ‘Sicko’ this weekend and I enjoyed it. Before you delete this email and thereby execute ties with a new supporter of yours, please note that I feel the need to explain why I enjoy Moore’s films before I start my tirade (which is surprisingly not directed at either of you, but rather toward the hate-filled rageaholics who festively decorate your inbox with colourful language and inventive grammar).
Let me begin by saying that I am a 26 year-old Canadian woman, and I don’t agree with everything Moore said about our healthcare system. Everyone I know has endured sickeningly long waits, and I myself have camped in hospital waiting rooms for hours at a time. The shortest I have ever spent in an ER waiting room is an hour and a half. I’ve never been sent away or denied treatment, but our system is by no means perfect. People are misdiagnosed here, too. Doctors are overworked and underpaid, and it’s not uncommon for me to have to remind my family doctor which member of my family I am, because a sixteen-hour shift can make his brain a mite fuzzy.
Michael Moore has presented his version of the facts in a few films now, popularizing a new style of documentary. For that, I curtsy in his general direction.
I have always been a fan of the documentary in its many forms, but find that a poorly executed documentary can be a bit of a snoozefest. Thus, it was with a sense of amused relief that I watched ‘Bowling for Columbine’ in 2002, because it was the first entertaining documentary I had ever seen. Others have followed, including “Supersize Me,” which was another entertaining, alternative view of the ‘facts’ we are more commonly fed by the mass media.
So yes. I like being entertained while I watch my documentaries, and Moore does that in spades. I fully agree that he has dumbed his shamelessly biased central messages down to a digestable pablum for the masses, but I don’t agree that I am a moron for watching his films. My opinion is simply that he feels passionate enough about certain issues to create these films, and he goes about convincing us in the same way the media does - using any angle or technique that will wrangle the populace over to his side. Moore’s need to take his interviewees on a wee fieldtrip in every film he makes is becoming insulting to my intelligence, though (try the zoo, next time, Mikey - it’s less likely to get your friends shot at).
I joined the lineup to your site after seeing ‘Sicko,’ because I wanted to see what you were all about before I decided to hate you. After reading a few pages on your site, I sensed a certain democracy in your intentions, and that is where you’ve earned my support. You are simply holding Moore’s feet to the fire, making him aware that he is and ever will be questioned on his facts. This is what democracy is all about! Free speech is great, but so is the freedom to question what is being said. All you’re asking for is some balance, and while your site may not be suitable for the kiddies, at least you’re honest and referenced!
To address the less-objective of my fellow Moore fans out there, I can only apologize to you as a person would for the drunken uncle at Thanksgiving. I’m sorry that so many of us are of the “shoot first and ask questions later” variety. I wish we read enough to know that Moore called before his film was released to identify himself as the source of the “anonymous” donation, and that Jim was respectful enough to thank him SEVERAL times for his help. I wish we would understand that the money was not a bribe to be silent forever more, and that taking the money is what ANYONE in Jim’s situation would do, source be damned. These “how could you!?” responses you’ve been getting on your site are a pathetic joke. How could he NOT? is the question I would ask these people.
I laughed wholehearteldly at that crazy ALL CAPS, APESHIT-CRAZY RANT from the loopy Mia Jones, and the response about Hippocrates had me giggling for at least a few seconds longer. She had to use the death of her child to try and guilt you into some sort of...what? Fear of her and her craziness? At least you are asking important questions instead of just sitting back and nodding your head! You actually source your information, and so it’s clear to this little Liberal that you two are not talking out of your backsides. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for Mrs. Jones and her violent husband.
That said, I wanted to write to support you because I think that what you’re doing is important. I think that Moore’s work is important in that it reveals another side of a given issue. His arguments are by no means all-inclusive, but humans being what they are, it can be difficult to remain objective on issues one feels strongly about. Also, notoriety sells. Make the grass look as green as possible on the other side, and people will begin to crap on their own lawns, so to speak.
The beauty of freedom is that we can say our piece and other people can disagree with us. One problem with Moore dumbing down the facts is that people like you will get hate mail from god-fearin’, gun-totin’ HIPPOCRATES who want to unleash unholy hell on you for asking important questions.
I suppose the point of this small novel I’ve written is to express my heartfelt sympathy that your cause has to contend with people who are too stupid to realize that important issues are more like a die than a coin, and that condemning you to a hell you don’t even believe in with craploads of profanity only serves to fortify your point in all of this, as well as your opinion that Moore fans are at least partially retarded.
We need you two to round out the argument and debate, and hell - you’re at least as entertaining as Michael Moore.
Kind regards;
C. Chrisp
Allow me to make one point explicitly clear. People are not inherently morons for watching Moore’s films. They’re not morons for agreeing with what he says. What qualifies them as “Moore-ons” is when they passionately, utterly accept what he says as being the gospel truth, yet have no ability to defend their own beliefs other than to say that Michael Moore told them it was true. Disagree with Jim and I all you like, that’s the pure essence of free speech. But be able to do so intelligently, with the facts on your side, rather than simply accepting the word of a portly propagandist.
People who implicitly trust and believe everything Michael Moore says are just as bad, if not worse, than people who implicitly trust and believe George W. Bush. At least Bush has the degree of trust implied by the office he holds, where as Moore has, what, a known track record of gross lies and distortions throughout his entire career, beginning with the Flint Voice and his brief stint at Mother Jones, then culminating in his stream of Leni Reifenstahl-like propaganda movies promoting the all-seeing, all-powerful benevolence of government. (Unless it’s in matters like war and defense, which have been regarded since the beginning of time as legitimate functions of government.)
As I’ve said a million times, people who write us calm, intelligent letters will be responded to with calm, intelligent responses. (As much as possible, anyway—answering every email we receive, good or bad, would be a full-time job.) People who send us hate-fill diatribes, especially those filled with errors in grammar, spelling, and fundamental sentence structure, will be posted with names and emails to be publicly ridiculed.
On a personal note, thank you to C. Chrisp for “getting” what is it Jim and I are trying to do here. It’s a rare pleasure.
Update As if right on queue, here’s another email from another Canadian, named Tim.
My name is Timothy and I am a journalism student in Calgary, Alberta, Canada; and I just wanted to say a few things.
I was first introduced to Michael Moore about 6 years ago in high school when our social studies teacher made the whole class watch ‘Downsize This’. I had a few laughs, learned a few things which I believe are factual. Whatever, I was young.
Now that I’ve matured a little, I see things in a slightly different perspective. Basically, a “documentarian” is a news reporter; however, the documenter has more power than a simple news reporter in the sense that they have total control of the flow of information in their piece of work. They can also easily abuse that power--as Michael Moore does.
One of the first things they teach you in the ‘Journalism Arts’ program at my school is ethics in journalism. The big ethical issue that Michael Moore constantly breaks is that he not only appears in his documentaries, he becomes influential in a way that becomes in favour of his bias. Basically, he does not document the subject, he becomes part of the subject.
As Mr. Wiseman points out, in this sense, Moore is more of an entertainer. Perhaps, Moore’s films may be entertaining, but alot of people mistake entertainment for a legitimate documate documentary.
Also, in the case of him sending you that money anonymously, he really crossed the line of ethical. People don’t understand that Moore didn’t send you money out of the kindness of his heart: he did it to once again influence the subject of the film in his favour. He has all of America thinking that, “ooh, Michael Moore is so generous” and “that moorewatch.com guy is horrible and unthankful for Michael Moore’s generosity,” etc, etc… It really puts you in an unfair situation.
I am not fooled. People really need to be more aware of Moore’s unrelentless disregard for ethics.
Don’t let the hate mail trouble you, some people (like I) do understand your situation.
Michael Moore’s Sicko came out on DVD this week, and let me tell you, my inbox has been like a minefield of stupid. It’s amazing how little people think for themselves these days, or are willing to look up the simplest of details.
Let’s do an exercise. Let’s say there was this film.
In this film, the “documentarian” decided to try to humiliate someone he didn’t like. During the segment a website was mentioned. You decide to visit that website. At the top of it is a big graphic that basically says “If you are here because of the movie, read this first” and links to a page full of facts, links to stories about the events leading up to the appearance in the film, and detailed explanations of the person’s actual thoughts and political leanings.
Would you read that page before you sent the person an email? If you said yes, you are smarter than 99.999765% of all Michael Moore fans on the Internet.
The phrase “stuck on stupid” has never meant more to me than it has this week. I mean, the flood of email was MUCH worse when the film was in theaters. At one point during opening week I was getting thousands a day, and I deleted most of them unread. It stopped almost as soon as it started, as Sicko was not the smash hit and huge influence Moore expected. It crashed rather hard, as did our traffic levels and the amount of hate mail I was getting. Due to the release of the DVD, interest has revived just enough that I can actually look at each email, so I am seeing the patterns much more clearly.
I have received exactly three emails that were well-written, thoughtful and polite. I’ve received maybe a hundred and fifty negatives. Half of that are just childish name-calling. The rest all follow a formula, in this order:
1. They open with one of two statement; “I am not a fan of Moore” or “I am a fan of Moore”
2. They affirm that they know he’s a liar, but it’s OK because the cause is just, or they claim he tells the 100% truth. Either way, they always dismiss the Cuba segment as an aberration or completely unimportant. One out of thirty will claim that Cuba is exactly the paradise portrayed by Moore. My guess is, those are the same kind of scum who think Che Guevara is a hero.
3. They offer some proof of why they know better, like they work as an orderly or they once visited France and got stitches from the health service and it was free. I swear that was one guy’s example of why America is evil.
4. They accuse me of being a big fan of Bush, Cheney, Hannity or Rush. Or all of them.
5. They tell me that the site is hateful. Some try to use analogies like Nazi/Jew, KKK/Black people, etc. Obviously in these analogies I am the Nazi or the Klansmen, and Moore is the put-upon minority. Some just flat-out state that opposing Moore means I hate the poor, and I must be rich “like Bush” to not believe in 100% socialized medicine. Some say that questioning Moore means I hate him. This part often varies in detail but is ALWAYS included and always revolves around the word “hate.” It seems to be a buzzword among college leftists these days.
6. They seem to think I spend all day, every day doing nothing but Moorewatch. Aside from reading the email, I haven’t spent more than ten minutes actual time at Moorewatch in about ten days. The site is self-perpetuating at this point. It takes a couple hours a month at the most, but that doesn’t seem to register with anyone. The emails always contain some variation on “You spend all your time___” (usually “hating on Moore” but sometimes it’s other things).
7. Incorrect facts. Sometimes they lead with “Moore saved your wife’s life” but most often it’s buried at the end. They all seem to think Donna was dying of cancer, and Moore’s $12,000 cured her. I don’t know where this cancer thing started, or why someone thinks you could cure cancer with $12,000 worth of anything, but there you have it. If it’s not cancer, they just say she was “dying.” Either way, Moore saved her life and I need to shut the site down. No one seems to know that both Donna and I publicly thanked Moore either. Again, sometimes they lead with “Why didn’t you at least thank him” but more often than not it’s buried down here. They also never know that Moore lied and literally tricked us into accepting the money as a setup for the movie.
8. The buying of my silence. Almost to a man and woman, every “critic” thinks that $12,000 should buy my silence. That I should be so grateful to him for tricking me and trying to humiliate me in his film, I should stop ever disagreeing with anything he ever says. Some go so far as to state that my opinion should be changed now. Somehow, this cash was supposed to change the facts and make Moore not a liar. Some say it should make me OK with him being a liar, even though sometimes they open the same email by saying he’s not a liar. So, he’s not a liar but if he is a liar I should not care because he lied to me and tricked me into taking money so he could use it in the film. Sure. That makes perfect sense.
9. Insults. Well, obviously. These vary, but always seem to fall into categories. I am; right wing, ungrateful, hateful, stupid, xenophobic and greedy. Most of the Brits will use one of the following: twat, wanker, prat. Most of the Americans will swear. The purely insulting ones are almost always a single paragraph with seemingly random punctuation. Many of them include a lot of TXTSPK, loads of lol and rofl and “u” instead of “you.” I weep for our future.
10. Sometimes it’s none of the above. Sometimes it’s machine-translated gibberish, oddly enough often from Denmark. Or it’s terrible English from a European. I’m not insulting the skills, as I can’t write in any language except English, but if you know you are bad at another language, why on earth would you try to discuss higher concepts like socialized medicine and free market economies?
11. Lastly, some of them include most of the above, but they write missives. HUGE emails, sometimes in the thousands of words, packed to the gills with errant facts, bad conclusions, assumptions about me, my wife, Lee, the cost of eggs in China and everything else they can pack in there. Often, if they originate outside the US, these missives are specifically and expressly anti-American just for the sake of it. Oddly, they attack me as representative of all Americans, as if I am responsible for everyone from the President to the LA gang-banger doing drive-bys. Generally the missives are repetitive and insulting, which is nice. One woman was so verbose I decided to string her along. I would reply in sentences of five words or less, always insulting and goading. She would reply with massive, lengthy emails that must have taken the better part of an hour to compose and type. She did this fourteen times before I just gave up.
I’ll be honest; I don’t understand Moore fans. I don’t see how a person capable of using a computer and the Internet could write like a ten year old, and have no comprehension skills whatsoever. I don’t know why a person would visit a website and not read the huge disclaimer that specifically applies to them. I don’t know why anyone would encourage lies in service of massive government waste and at the same time be a critic of Bush’s spending policies. I don’t understand why you would compose missives without doing the tiniest bit of research first. I don’t understand how you could ignore a film like Manufacturing Dissent while at the same time following the instructions of a guy who lies and deceives everyone around him every day in order to turn a profit and increase his fame.
Then again...I’m not a Moore fan. I guess it’s not for me to understand. They don’t seem to understand why we would be concerned with uncovering the truth and asking people to become informed before trying to change the system by which we are governed.
Six of one, half dozen of the other, I suppose.
*UPDATE*
As if on cue...this came in not moments after this post was finalized:
from Jim K [email protected]
to jimk.moorewatch, lee
date Nov 10, 2007 3:43 PM
You people are despicable! you should both burn in hell… michael moore seems to have things on the right track. altho he is not the most correct person in the world, he has the right idea. america sucks, simply put it is the best place to live; IF YOU HAVE MONEY… if not, you are shit out of luck.
Yours Truly,
-A Canadian
We should burn in hell because we disagree with a man who “is not the most correct person in the world” but, don’t forget, “he has the right idea.” Also, “america sucks” unless you are rich. Nevermind that poor in this country means you have running water, a roof, television, a car, telephones, free health care from the government, etc. That’s pesky factual evidence and we don’t deal with any of that. America sucks, this Canadian has spoken.
I just approved 200 new commenters and damn near 3/4 of them were from European countries. Prepare for the influx of the same stupid questions and comments as have been posted for the last 5 years…
Why? Why do I do it? ;)
Update from Lee Because, my friend, if we don’t fight the good fight who will? Who will stand up to the lies, distortion, and creeping socialism that is ruining our Republic? Our elected officials sure as hell aren’t doing their job.
Either that, or we’re a couple of fat bastards who spend too much time in front of a computer arguing with people for no reason other than we enjoy it. I prefer to think of myself as a crusader for righteousness, but in reality you and I are both like that guy from the World of Warcraft episode of South Park with a little Comic Book Guy thrown in for good measure.
It’s been awhile since I got a funny hate mail. I think this one qualifies, mainly due to the atrocious grammar and child-like rage.
From: “Scott Harding” [email protected]
To: jimk
Subject: jackass
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2007 23:44:17 -0500
How the hell can you say these things you pig, he payed for your wifes
health care!
Do you not have anything better to do?
And the canadien system of healthcare is far better than your shitty
way.
FU
Let’s break it down. I shouldn’t say anything about the quality and veracity of Moore’s work, but this semi-human can call me a pig, get the facts of the events in Sicko wrong, and then tell me “FU.” Kung fu? Fu Manchu? What exactly am I supposed to fu? Is his fu more powerful than my fu? We must fight! Only one may reign! Let the fu fight begin! Hey, that sounds like a great band name. Fu Fight. I should write that down. ;)
First, the simple facts: NewWest.Net had a story, with photos, about a protest outside the Jackson, Wyoming home of Vice President Dick Cheney. We soon became aware that the photo and the story were the lead feature story on MichaelMoore.com, but rather than follow the well-established protocol of publishing a short excerpt of the story and a thumbnail picture with a link back to our site, Moore’s site simply took the whole story as well as a full-size image. They did include attribution and a link, but still.
As we normally do in such cases, we sent a several e-mails to the site and to Moore asking that they remove the piece, or follow the proper protocol (and the law) by publishing just a snippet and a link. No response, and no action.
We have a policy here at MW...we quote and link as discussed above, unless the articles is A) very valuable information and B) is from a site that recycles links or destroys archives after a period of time. If that policy is violated, it is a mistake, and not a matter of habit. The other instance in which we may reproduce an entire article is with permission. If someone asks, we take their work down, immediately.
I have no doubt that Moore’s Canadian web team (outsourcing rules!) did this without checking with him first, but the moment it is brought to someone’s attention, you should take care of it. You know that he knows about it by now, as it seems to have been removed from his front page.
Neither Mike nor I are fond of copyright laws. This is more than that, though. When you take someone else’s news or blog items whole and put them on your site, you are simply robbing that writer of eyeballs and traffic, and it’s just rude if nothing else. It is literally like me stealing the content of Sicko and putting it out under my name, taking away all the impetus to go see the real film. Moore makes his money, to be sure, but he says that you seeing his films is more important than anything else. He just wants you to see it. So why is he (or his team) intentionally depriving someone else of that? Note his lack of apology and any admittance of screwing up. No matter how tiny the offense, Michael Moore will never, ever admit he did something wrong. No wonder he hates Bush so much. They’re exactly alike. Half-wits, in way over their heads and unable to admit mistakes.
First off, I would like to thank the numerous people lately who have written me calm, thoughtful, sincere emails. The hate mail seems to have generally died down, and many people around the world are seeing Sicko, then writing in with questions or comments. The problem is that I have received so many of these letters lately that answering them all would virtually be a full-time job. So, please accept my apologies for not being able to respond to everyone. Now, I just received an email from a reader in the UK which I think brings up a lot of points I think should be addressed, so I’ve decided to answer it.
Hi I’m from England and I have just watched Sicko. I personally find Michael Moore VERY condescending and preachy however I do have some problems with your take on medcine.
Fair enough.
I cannot see how it can be a problem for the government to pay for medicine. You state that you have paid more than $250 for a meal but this does not make it ok to pay that much for health care.
I put that in there for foreign readers who might not be aware of how much $250 dollars is. The reality is that it’s not very much. The minimum wage here in California is $7.50, so even with taxes taken out $250 is roughly what the poorest-paid workers in the state make in a week. $250 is $150 less than an XBox 360, roughly the same price as a Nintendo Wii, and about twice the cost of a Playstation 2. It’s in the same ballpark as what the latest and greatest pair of basketball shoes will cost you.
Let me tell you something. In America you see a WHOLE lot of poor kids wearing $200 basketball shoes.
As America is the economic powerhouse of the world it is unthinkable that they could nt setup a very effective health care system and why should people pay. The reason that people pay taxes is to have their basic needs paid for by the state surely medicine is included in this.
Perhaps in the UK people pay taxes to have their fundamental needs met, but not here. Let’s assume, however, that this is true. Isn’t food the most fundamental of all needs? Why doesn’t the state provide everyone with food? Why are there supermarkets where people are forced to pay for that most basic of needs? And what about a place to live? Why isn’t the government paying for everyone to have a place to live? Why are you allowed to choose where to live? To rent or buy? Why should capitalism be allowed to enter into these transactions, for food and shelter, two needs which are far more immediate than medical care?
Simple. The free market is the most efficient means of equitable distribution of wealth that has ever been devised. Period.
“But Lee! The government does give food and shelter to poor people, so you’re not making much sense here!” The operative word there, of course, is poor. If the government provided everyone with a house they’d all be identical gray cinderblock buildings with square apartments. If the government provided everyone with food it would be a flavorless gruel of some kind. In fact, if you want to see what these services are like when provided by the state, look at North Korea. The best thing to do is to give help only to those people who actually need it and let everyone else be free to do as they choose. So the poor get food stamps and live in a council flat, while the rest of us buy cars and houses.
Why should healthcare be any different?
Also there are many people who cannot afford $265. What do they do? Its an unfortunate fact of life that many people do not earn enough to be able to afford these fee’s and it seems that your attitude is “well the system works works for me so there is nothing wrong with it.”
As I said before, $265 is not much money. Most people, even those of modest means, could afford it. Yes, not everyone will be able to. Then again, not everyone will choose to , either. When healthcare is paid for by taxes you’re forcing people to buy health insurance, and there are some people (usually young, healthy people) who skip the insurance because they’d rather have the money.
I know that the NHS (english national health service) is in a **** state at the moment but that is down to EU beaurocracy and there are many countries where a NHS works well.
Thank you for proving my point. You know what I do when I deal with a shit doctor or a shit hospital or a shit insurance company? I go somewhere else. You, I’m sorry to say, are stuck with the NHS.
Basically what I am saying is that healthcare is a human need and it does seem that the USA denies this to many people and that is wrong and I do not think you should at the very least be able to accept some of the intelligent critisism from Moore’s film.
Healthcare is a human need. It is not a human right, and that is the distinction. Neither Jim nor I nor the vast majority of Americans have any problem providing healthcare to the poor. We already do this through programs like Medicaid. What he and I are opposed to, and will fight tooth and nail, is single-payer healthcare like in the UK. It’s a disaster, and I want no part of it.
Helping people who need help is one thing. Doing so by lessening the quality of the care you receive yourself is another thing entirely.
However I will agree that the man is a complete nob jockey but people should not have to pay for medicine
Well, I’ll agree with you on the nob jockey part. :)
Do you believe in god? if so, if you don’t mind please answer me this. Will Michael Moore go to heaven continuing doing what he’s doing? If not, what will happen to him?
While I am sure Jim will correct me if I am mistaken, I am fairly certain that neither he nor I are religious in any sense of the word. I don’t like to use the terms “atheist” or “agnostic” when describing myself, because those are essentially religious terms. I prefer to simply say that I am not religious. Jim, if he feels it necessary, can add an update to this post with his own particular views.
As far as Moore goes, let’s assume that there is a God. As far as I know the only real requirement is that you accept Jesus as your Saviour. By doing so your sins will be absolved. Moore has made mention in the past of his religious beliefs—he was an altarboy, if memory serves—and thus he should, technically, end up in heaven.
As godless heathens, Jim and I will end up burning in hell for all eternity. If Moore is not sincere about his religious convictions, then he’ll burn right next to us.
Update from JimK:
Lee’s about got it perfectly. Not religious. Not sure about God, gods or anything else. I have my suspicions, but I’m not nearly arrogant enough to claim I have an answer. If Mikey believes in God, bully for him. I hope it fills a need for him. I find the whole thing highly unlikely, but hey, you never know. Maybe there is an old man in the sky who watches me when I pee, and send email to Santa telling him not to bring me anything because I touched it again. ;)
Don’t know and to be frank, I don’t care. I pretty much live by the right rules anyway, and if He is up there, I’m quite certain I’m not going to be punished for not picking a team.
This could be the funniest hate mail we’ve ever gotten.
To: Lee and Jim
From: Just Sozo []
Subject: WOW you IIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!
DEAR, F#!K F^&E
HEY NUM NUTS IT WOULD BE NICE IF YOUR BITCH ASS PRESIDENT BUSH WOULD QUIT WASTES OUR TAX MONEY ON THIS GOD FORSAKEN WAR, CUZ I FUCKIN THINK ITS UP TO 350 BILLON DOLLARS YOU FUCKIN IDIOT, AND MAYBE, JUST MMMMMAAAAYYYYYYBBBBBEEEE HE CAN USE THAT ON HIS OWN FUCKING PEOPLE, THAT NEED IT, AND MAYBE YOUR WIFE COULD HAVE BEEN COVERED, OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH WAIT MR. MOORE PAID IT RIGHT, “ OOOH THANK YOU GUARDAIN ANGEL WHO EVER YOU ARE” BOO FUCKIN WOOOOOO, YOU PUSSY, YOUR WIFE SHOULD OF BEEN THROWN OUT ON THE STREETS, LIKE EVERYONE ELSE HAS. INSTEAD OF SENDING KIDS TO THEIR DEATHS, AND DON’T GIVE ME THAT EVERY KIDS AMERICAN DREAM TO DEFEND THIS COUNTRY, EVERY YOUNG PERSONS AMERICAN DREAM IS TO GET AN EDUCATION AND LIVE A HAPPY LIFE, OH AN WHERES BIN LADEN YOU FUCK NUT. YOU BITCH, AND FUCK YOU TOO AUTHOR,................................ MICHEAL MOORE JUST SHOWING YOU THE TRUTH YOU FAG, OH IM SORRY YOU ARE!! DYING TO SUCK OOH WAIT....... LICK YOUR PRESIDENT BUSH’S PUSSY. I THANK GOD I DONT CONSIDER THAT MORONIC MAN G. W. BUSH MY PRESIDENT. I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU, WAIT.... I CAN SEE IT NOW. YOU ARE A BLUE COLLAR JANITOR OR BUS DRIVER, RIGHT, OH AND YOU HAVE TO BE COUSIN-FUCKING WHITE NAZI, RIGHT, AND YOU MEET YOUR KLANS-MEN EVERY FRIDAY TO HAIL HITLER, RIGHT? BITCH. AND I REALLY DONT CARE IF YOU POST THIS AS LONG AS YOU KNOW KNOW A BITCH, SO GO FUCK YOUR COUSIN, OH MY BAD YOU WIFE, AND SLEEP, BITCH
PS: YOU OWE MICHEAL MOORE 12000 DOLLARS YOU KNOW THE MONEY YOUR CORRUPT INSURANCE COULDNT COVER
One common question I get from Moore supporters in virtually every email is “Why?” Why do we focus on Moore when there are so many larger ills in the world? I’ll attempt to answer exactly that after the jump.
First of all, the easiest answer is another question: Why not? Do the people who ask me why Moorewatch exists go around asking every other blog in the world why they exist? Is it a waste of time to write a food blog, or a blog about comic books, or one about weight loss, cars, Nintendo, Democrats in Congress, movies, Ford or any other topic? There are millions of blogs (literally) that cover every imaginable topic thought of by mankind. Why is it such a surprise (and to some, a travesty) that one out of the millions of blogs that exist focuses on Moore’s work and Moore’s pet issues? Do these same people email Kos and ask him why he only focuses on “progressive” issues? For that matter why not ask Moore why he’s never made a movie that focuses on the good in America? He makes the movies that interest him. We blog about the issues that interest us.
The question of “Why Moore?” itself is kind of a waste of time. Without meaning to be dismissive and insulting, it’s kind of a stupid question.
Secondly, the simple answer is “Because we can.” It’s a logical extension of the first answer. We do it because at the time the site was created, no one else was, and we could. We were the first, we’ll probably be the last. Why do people climb mountains? Why do people form political action committees? Why do people join pottery classes or play soccer or collect thimbles? Why does anyone do anything? Further extending this line of thought, why is it somehow a bad thing that we choose to spend a few minutes a day doing this site? Because we don’t tackle every single problem in the known world, we aren’t allowed to have a blog about what we see as one specific problem? If we don’t do everything, we aren’t allowed to do anything? I’ve never understood that logic. I don’t think I ever will.
Third in the series of answers to this non-question; Because someone needs to try to keep Moore honest. Rather a Sisyphean task, I know, but we exist to debunk and/or verify facts, claims and even opinion put forth by Moore. It is, for lack of a better term, our mission statement. Even his fans know he’s not honest. They tell me all the time. Then in the next breath, they ask me why we spend “so much time” debunking him. Oddly contrary, those two positions seem. But then, I’m not a disciple of the Church of Moore, I just don’t have the faith to accept lies as truth. I don’t accept lies as truth form my government (regardless of what the trolls think, I’m not a “Bushie") and I won’t accept it from a man who is trying to socialize my country and turn it into a clone of Europe.
Lastly (for now) we exist because we’re still here. This site started as a collaborative effort between myself and Lee. We had a couple of guest authors who quickly fell off the radar (One quit blogging for a long time, the other just wandered away). Lee and I kept dropping our posts about Moore on both our personal blogs and here at Moorewatch. As the hubub about BFC continued, we started creating posts solely for this site. During the run-up to F911 and the 2004 election, we were cranking it out and adding other authors as well. We inspired a “cottage industry” [i.e. other people managed to make money, not us—Lee] of films and books and movies and websites about Moore, but more importantly to me, we grew a community. It’s a small one, but there are some great writers and some sharp minds here, on both sides of the political fence. Every time I have thought to myself “Moorewatch is more trouble than it’s worth” I look at the comments or the forums and I look past the trolls and critics to the users, left and right, who come back and add the real value to this site.
At this point I wouldn’t close it down even if Moore retired. After the 2004 elections, the site almost went dead. Traffic was down to the low hundreds per day, but that small community kept it going, fulling the forums with topics, packing the posts with comments that often ended up a million miles from where they started. If you really want to see what keeps this place going, pick any given month from 2005 or 2006 and start reading the comment threads. We’re at the stage now where the site keeps itself alive because of the community.
I hope that sheds some light on things. Now if you don’t mind, I’m going to go light the grill and cook me some tasty goodness. Enjoy your weekend, people. We don’t get enough of them in this life.
I can sympathize with the position you found yourself in. While Moore’s donation did good for your wife he twisted the situation in a way that completely eliminated anything positive he could have taken from it. Your wife deserved to get better, you did not deserve to be humiliated in the public eye. As much as I enjoy Michael Moore films, what happened to you was deplorable.
Your site helps give a much needed counter perspective on the work of Michael Moore. I love what Moore is doing and how he sheds light on subjects that are long overdue for attention but, in the end, he has become a monster in the same way as those he aims to degrade, depose, and defame through his documentaries.
As usual, as with most other things in life, the solution to our problems lies somewhere in the middle. Moore in a way is the drastic counter-weight to a big-business driven government that has made profit for the few a priority over the well-being of the majority. Someone is going to have to get into the mud to wake everyone up and expose what our government is doing to us. Moore is the perfect person to do it. My regret: His questionable methods may ultimately overshadow his message and destroy the credibility he has built. Who will pick up the torch if he drops it? I have yet to see anyone out there who has been able to reach so many and drive awareness in the way that Michael Moore has.
Keep up the good work, I just read your site for the first time today and will keep coming back for a fresh perspective on what Moore is doing.
See, here’s the thing. It’s not like Jim and I think that the US healthcare system is perfect. You’d have to be a moron to look at a system this flawed and hold it up as an example to emulate. There are a lot of really good things about our system and also a lot of really bad things. The same goes for socialized medicine. Moore, rather than create a film which will initiate debate on the state of healthcare in this country, merely made a 90-minute informercial for socialism. There are so many things wrong with the Canadian, British, and French healthcare systems that books can (and have) been written about it. Moore treats these countries as if they’re some fantastical mystery lands, with rivers of chocolate, where children laugh and dance and play with gumdrop smiles, knowing that all the healthcare they could ever want is right there at their fingertips for the taking.
Moore will claim that he’s interested in initiating debate. Far from it. The debate is already going on, he just wants to skew it towards his side. (Which is fascinating in an of itself. Michael Moore is a guy who thinks that the same government which can’t be trusted with your library records should be trusted with your health records.)
From: Kevin Moorman ([email protected])
Subj:You owe Michael Moore $12,000!!!
Dumbasses!
Hey why not just pay him back then you don’t have to look like such total
idiots with your ridiculous “chain of facts”.
Here’s a chain of facts: you’re stupid, you’re broke, Michael bailed your ass
out for ya, “here you go, Fool!”. End of story until you give the money back!
Laughing at how pathetic you are…
Sincerely Yours, K Moorman
Kevin, a word of advice. When sending hate mail, don’t (a) use your real name, (b) use your real email address, or (c) use an email which contains volumes of personal information.
Lee and I received an email from a documentary filmmaker who asked that their name be withheld. I will honor that request because they asked politely and I know how hard it can be in the industry when you cross certain people, even mildly.
I just got a change to see Sicko today. Being a Canadian who does believe in universal health care, i did want to see Michael Moore’s spin on things. I’ve seen both Bowling for Columbine and Fahrenheit 911, both of which I watched with caution as to not digest all the information as fact.
As a filmmaker myself, my main point of contention against Moore’s film is his lack of respect for the true documentary. A documentarian need never be in his or her documentary only because they are trying to document what is happening in the world around them as it is, without opinion or bias clouding the view. Documentaries are still obviously visual filmmaking essays to prove a point, but the thesis is only as strong as the supporting arguments, and the supporting arguments must be presented in a clear, unfettered manner with which the viewer can digest on their own, and form their own opinion from. Michael Moore clearly does not do this, Often manufacturing his own instances for the sake of entertainment, and appears in his own films, introducing a bias that need not be there. It’s the equivalent of saying “I feel” in a thesis paper - it’s bad form and only works against your point.
I guess I’m sending an email along to both of you mainly because while I am particularly anti-bush, and pro universal health-care (thus agreeing with Moore’s views), I do not approve of his methods. I went to your site after watching Sicko mainly to find the main points of contention that were in this particular film, because I did sense an over dramatised and somewhat clouded view of the facts being presented. I wanted to thank you for providing the rebuttal in a clear fashion for me to also digest, because as with many views, I find myself somewhere in the middle, questioning both sides. I went into
the film aware there were questionable practices being presented in the film, but decided to not find out what the were afterwards, so as to not let anothers opinion bias what I thought of moore’s
presentation. Anyways, I like what you guys are doing and I think it’s important to display the facts for people to digest, as long as you do so with journalistic integrity. I hope that the hate audience that you have doesn’t give you too hard a time.
Thanks, unnamed documentary film maker! I really liked this email because it shows that we can fundamentally disagree on the core issue - universal health care - but agree that no matter how you feel, you have to be fair and honest when talking about it. This person and I agree completely about what a documentary should be, and about Moore’s infotainmentarian style.
Hey, did I just coin that word? I think I did. Sweetness. Infotainmentarian. Infotainmentary. Michael Moore makes infotainmentaries. It;s a hell of a mouthful, but pretty accurate.
Anyway, loved the feedback, and I especially love the part where they said they were “somewhere in the middle, questioning both sides.” I’ve tried to be there myself. This person leans toward some form of universal health care, and I lean toward truly reforming the system without adding government control and another giant agency to an already bloated, federally-controlled system of government. The thing is, we’re both asking questions of both sides in this debate, and I think that;s the way it should be.
Blindly accepting that the current system is perfect, or that single-payer is the only answer is just...lazy.
Update from Lee: There are two separate issues here. Moore’s trick is he presents them as one.
There are major, major problems with the healthcare industry in this country. Moore has done all of us a service by, at the very least, creating a point around which a discussion can take place. Where he pulls his usual deceptive stunt is in showing the problem, then showing one of many possible solutions and presenting it as the only possible solution. And, not only is it the only possible solution, but there isn’t a single downside to implementing it.
Think about it. Even the biggest proponent of single-payer healthcare will, if they are honest, admit that there are substantial downsides to that program. Can you remember a single downside presented by Moore? I can’t. I mean, look at the segment he did in France. As I was watching Sicko the other day, particularly the scenes set in France, a scene from The Simpsons popped in my head. It was the episode where Homer ran for city trash collector. In a debate with the incumbent, Ray Patterson, Homer promises that, if elected, he’ll hire more men to provide every last service the people could want. Patterson tries to tell them this is impossible and unworkable. Here’s the debate scene.
Now, as you watch the musical number, think of the scene with the doctors making housecalls.
Of course, the episode ends up with Homer bankrupting the sanitation department. A parable for socialism and its promises? Oh yes, indeed. See, what Moore shows you is a snapshot of all the free goodies that you get in France now. What he has no way of showing you is the cuts in social spending that are going to be required in France, so that in 20 years much of what we see there now simply will not be available. Just a few weeks ago there was an election in France between a the Socialist Royale (promising more goodies and less work) and the center-right Sarkozy, promising to cut back government freebies. Moore conveniently neglects to tell you that Sarkozy won handily. Why, if the French have the government bending over backwards to provide for their every need, would they vote for Sarkozy?
Simple. Their system cannot last forever. It might look great now, but like all socialist utopias they only last a short time. And Moore isn’t honest enough to admit that.
So, we all admit there’s a problem. But he only shows one solution, and doesn’t even admit that there’s a downside to it.
This entry will be updated over time to contain links to information I want people to understand before they write stories, blog posts, comments or nasty emails about me or this situation. Please take a moment to read over the information before you do anything else. Thank you.
Here because of the appearance of this site in Sicko? Read this and thisbefore commenting. Also, please continue reading the rest of this post for important information before you comment here or send any email to any author on this site.
1. ATTENTION PEOPLE FLOODING MY INBOX:I thanked Moore. Read more about it below before you email me to yell at me.
I thanked him when he was hiding his identity, I thanked him when he made it known, I thanked him again after that. I even did it a few times after the third one. Moore himself has stated that I thanked him.
HW: Did Jim, who runs the ‘anti-Michael Moore’ Web site [Moorewatch.com], ever find out that you were his mysterious donor?
MM: I left him a message recently to let him know that I was the person who sent him the money[to meet his wife’s medical bills], because I wanted him to know before the premiere of my film. I received a very gracious note from him thanking me and wishing the film well. I hope it turns out ok.
You all will have to find another reason to call me names now.
2. NOTE FROM LEE: To the people flooding my inbox, I AM NOT JIM. I am the co-founder of this website. We all know that Michael Moore fans aren’t the brightest group in the world, but if you want to send hate mail to Jim, how about clicking the right goddamned link? Here’s a clue: the one that says “Jim” is the one you want. The one that says “Lee” is the wrong one.
3. In reference to Lee’s note: PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE AUTHOR’S NAME IN EACH POST. It’s in big, bold text at the top of each entry. If you have a complaint or a comment, please make sure you are addressing the person who actually wrote the entry. Lee and I excercise almost no editorial control over anything that is posted by our other writers. We all have our own unique way of writing, our own ideas, our own voices. If you take issue with something posted here, the very least you could do is to look and see who it was that wrote whatever it is that has pissed you off. :)
4. If you feel yourself wanting to use the old chestnuts of “Faux Newz” or screaming to me about Hannity or O’Reilly or Limbaugh, please take a moment before you do and read this. Thank you.
5. If you’re a regular reader of the site, would you consider filling out the Blog Reader Survey? All data is private, as per the privacy policy located here. Survey is closed...thanks to all who participated!
7. Oh look, Moore himself saying that this site shouldn’t close and that I shouldn’t stop speaking, as so many Moore fans have been saying (and demanding).
In the film, you mention anonymously helping the man who runs the biggest anti-Michael Moore Web site to pay some medical bills. Now that your assistance is no longer anonymous, have you had any further contact with him?
Yes, I called him before the first time we screened it at the film festival in Cannes and told him it was me. I didn’t want him to be surprised by it.
And what did he say?
He was very grateful and thanked me and wished the film well.
And then said, “I’m still going to talk smack about you on my Web site tomorrow”?
Ha. Well, he might. That’s my point. His freedom of speech shouldn’t be taken away just because he can’t afford health insurance.
Can we move past this point yet?
8. Before you send an email that includes any variation on “Why does this site exist?” or ‘Why do you talk about Moore when ____is more evil?” I want you to read the answer here.
If you feel we provide a useful site, even if you just come here to disagree, please consider donating a few dollars to help keep the server going. Thank you.
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